Transcript of the May 12, 2022 Columbia Association Meetings

Below you will find an auto-generated transcript for the May 12, 2022 Meeting of the Members of the Columbia Association, the Organizational Meeting of the Columbia Association Board of Directors, and the Meeting of the Columbia Council.

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a columbia association

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to order at

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7.02

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good evening everyone i’m janet evans

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chair of the ca board of directors

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please remember that this meeting of the

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board of directors is being live

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streamed you can find tonight’s agenda

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and background materials on the ca

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boards webpage

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links to these documents can also be

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found in the description section of our

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youtube live stream for those of you who

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are watching there

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if you’re virtual please mute your

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microphones unless you’re speaking if

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you’re in the room please ensure your

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cell phones are silenced

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raise your hand to speak i will record

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the names in the order in which i see

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them if you are virtual please use the

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chat feature

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and as always i appreciate those of you

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in the room helping me monitor the chat

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as we move through the meeting i will

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introduce each item on the agenda before

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a vote is taken i will restate a motion

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as well as who motioned and seconded if

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at any point you have trouble hearing me

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or any other board member please say so

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i will be keeping time tonight since we

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have not yet created a rotation

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and now i will call the role

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dick

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bonsoir

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eric here

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brian

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yeah

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kevin here

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bill

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allen present

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andy president

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jenny here

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sherry here

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lakey here and i am here

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can i get a motion to approve the agenda

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so moved

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jenny moves do i have a second

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second

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eric seconds

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anyone opposed any discussion

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anyone opposed

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okay unanimous

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okay next up we have resident speak out

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[Music]

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thank you

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all right first up we have melissa

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villagus

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melissa are you with us

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okay we will come back to melissa

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next up we have deborah latimer

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do we have deborah on the line

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yep i’m here hello good evening welcome

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welcome

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um

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okay

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good evening i am debbie latimer

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i live in um

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and i am speaking

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just a minute

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i am speaking on behalf of our howard

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kennedy mom’s demand action for gun

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sense in america local group

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i live in long reach village on each

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leaf court right next to oakbush where

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kyle shot and killed his wife

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aline and then himself in march 2021.

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both my children graduated from long

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reach high school where a police officer

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disarmed a high school student who had a

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loaded ghost gun

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in may 2021

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across the street from the exxon where

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21 year old jaden was shot and died less

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than a month later

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i work at our county’s hospital where

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wendy who was shot and killed by her

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ex-husband

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in december 2021 had worked

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near the convenience store where a 22

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year old man montez was shot in early

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june 2021 and later died

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close to the wild lake village center

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where a mother and child were shot in

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crossfire in february of this year

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this is just a glimpse of the way our

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community has been impacted by gun

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violence over the past year

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gun violence includes suicides domestic

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violence school shootings

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mass shootings unintentional shootings

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and threats of gun violence

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each day

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more than 110 people in the united

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states are killed and more than 200 are

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wounded with guns

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in a national poll 58 percent of adults

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reported that they or someone they care

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for have experienced gun violence in

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their lifetime

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more people die from gun violence by

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early february in the united states than

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during the entire calendar year

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in other high-income

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countries moms demand action together

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with other groups who care about this

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issue commemorate the first friday of

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june

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as national gun violence awareness day

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that will be june 3rd this year

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we wear and light up orange to remember

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all the victims of gun violence

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our volunteers work every day of the

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year

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to prevent gun violence through our

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support of evidence-based solutions

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please vote to issue a proclamation and

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consider lighting a building orange in

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honor of all those who’ve been impacted

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by gun violence in colombia

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our hospital will be lighting up orange

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this year because our medical

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professionals recognize that gun

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violence is a public health issue

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thank you

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thank you debbie are there any questions

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alan yeah debbie thank you is there a an

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event or a date or a deadline that we

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should be aware of or is this something

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that we could do

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just i have submitted a letter to all of

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you um you should have received it and

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it has more details about what we’re

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requesting

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um but basically we’re asking the

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columbia association board to issue a

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proclamation

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just designating

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the national

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gun violence remembrance day or

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awareness day for june 3rd

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and that weekend is typically when we um

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light buildings up and also wear orange

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and have activities we are planning a

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community event that will probably be

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held in columbia as well at lake elkhorn

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um

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at one of the schools the middle school

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i believe um and that’s going to be the

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following weekend so we can keep you

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apprised

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of what’s going on

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thank you we’re working with another

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community organization too

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on this

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jenny yeah thank you excuse me deb uh

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excuse me is this proclamation that you

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sent us the same as the one uh this

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board approved uh was it a year ago or

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two years ago

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it’s similar it’s similar okay it’s

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updated

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yeah okay thank you

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any other questions

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thank you debbie

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okay thank you

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okay next up we have russ swatek

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westwatex longreach i stand thanks to

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new and returning board members for

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volunteering your time to serve our

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community

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i was on the board for four years and

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know it will consume all the time you

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are willing to give it

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please remember the ca president and

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staff work for you

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and you for the residents of columbia

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i found most of my problems with ca

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staff stem from how ca was viewed

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ca is the corporation in the homeowners

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association

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i wanted ca to emphasize being the

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resident’s hoa

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of course ca needs to stay financially

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solvent to serve the community

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however staff often appear to be

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thinking only of the corporate aspect

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which it does not need to adhere to many

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of the hla requirements

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makes sense because ca is their employer

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but the reason for ca’s existence is to

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be the residents hoa

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last year ca signed an agreement with

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the downtown columbia arts and cultural

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commission and the ima

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which codified how the holiday symphony

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of lights could wrap cars over symphony

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woods forested land

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several residents requested a copy of

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the agreement

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and the ca president and general counsel

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refused to provide it

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said there was a non-disclosure

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agreement well there was no nda

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i saw an ethics complaint against the ca

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president and general counsel

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alleging ethics violation for not

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providing the agreement as required by

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the maryland homeowners association act

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and for not being truthful

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board members and residents

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unfortunately the ca board chair

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basically disregarded the allegations

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and said there was just different legal

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opinions based on statements by ca’s

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general counsel that the agreement does

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not need to be released

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he is simply a hired hand

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willing to say whatever is requested

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and he works for the ca president do not

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expect any credibility there

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the ch here did not even bring it before

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the board for discussion

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after many weeks ca finally did release

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the agreement

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however in the meantime i had referred

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the matter to the office of the attorney

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general from ireland unfortunately due

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to the legislature being in session we

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did not get the attorney general’s

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response until yesterday

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it’s very clear that the agreement had

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to be provided to the requesting regime

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when i get all of your email addresses i

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will forward the ag’s opinion to you

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ca has a history of withholding

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requested information that the maryland

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hoa act requires to be released

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please stop this practice

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so when i get your email address i will

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forward a new exits complaint to you

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it has been released that the ca

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president has disclosed ca confidential

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information to the media

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in an attempt to affect the recent

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elections

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because she did not like the candidate

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this should be investigated

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ca board you need to get our president

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under control

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in closing

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just remember that the ca president and

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staff

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work for you

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thank you russ any questions for us

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okay

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uh

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has melissa joined us

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okay

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and that concludes our resident speak

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out for tonight’s

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meeting to limit interruptions during

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board discussion and voting all members

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of the general public will now be

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returned to the audience this means that

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you will no longer be able to show your

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camera or unm mute your audio but you

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are more of the welcome to stay on as an

279
00:19:13,760 –> 00:19:16,320
attendee to watch the remainder of this

280
00:19:16,320 –> 00:19:18,320
meeting work session

281
00:19:18,320 –> 00:19:20,640
you can also watch the live stream on

282
00:19:20,640 –> 00:19:23,120
the ca live stream youtube page thank

283
00:19:23,120 –> 00:19:26,240
you for your participation tonight

284
00:19:26,240 –> 00:19:28,080
i will now take a moment to allow our

285
00:19:28,080 –> 00:19:31,960
staff to make the transition

286
00:19:51,760 –> 00:19:53,840
so

287
00:20:06,000 –> 00:20:08,080
we’re good

288
00:20:08,080 –> 00:20:10,320
okay

289
00:20:16,880 –> 00:20:19,840
okay can i now have a motion to approve

290
00:20:19,840 –> 00:20:22,320
the minutes from may 13th and october

291
00:20:22,320 –> 00:20:24,799
14th so 21.

292
00:20:24,799 –> 00:20:27,600
jenny moves do i have a second

293
00:20:27,600 –> 00:20:31,760
i’ll second 90 seconds any discussion

294
00:20:31,760 –> 00:20:34,159
just a question our usual practice has

295
00:20:34,159 –> 00:20:36,799
been the one votes

296
00:20:36,799 –> 00:20:38,960
on minutes only if one attended the

297
00:20:38,960 –> 00:20:40,559
meeting

298
00:20:40,559 –> 00:20:42,000
and since you just lumped the two of

299
00:20:42,000 –> 00:20:44,080
them together into one motion i attended

300
00:20:44,080 –> 00:20:46,320
one and didn’t attend the other i’m

301
00:20:46,320 –> 00:20:48,240
wondering what i believe anybody is able

302
00:20:48,240 –> 00:20:52,240
to vote regardless thank you

303
00:20:52,480 –> 00:20:54,159
any objection to the approval of the

304
00:20:54,159 –> 00:20:56,559
minutes

305
00:20:56,799 –> 00:20:59,799
unanimous

306
00:21:14,080 –> 00:21:16,159
okay moving on to the election of

307
00:21:16,159 –> 00:21:18,240
directors to the board whereas the

308
00:21:18,240 –> 00:21:20,080
following persons are in the columbia

309
00:21:20,080 –> 00:21:22,159
council representatives elected to serve

310
00:21:22,159 –> 00:21:24,320
for fiscal year 23 by the members of

311
00:21:24,320 –> 00:21:26,000
their respective village community

312
00:21:26,000 –> 00:21:27,919
associations

313
00:21:27,919 –> 00:21:30,320
richard bolton village of dorsey search

314
00:21:30,320 –> 00:21:32,559
eric greenberg village of river hill

315
00:21:32,559 –> 00:21:34,880
brian england village of hickory ridge

316
00:21:34,880 –> 00:21:37,600
kevin fitzgerald village of town center

317
00:21:37,600 –> 00:21:39,919
janet evans village of longreach bill

318
00:21:39,919 –> 00:21:42,960
santos village of wild lake allen klein

319
00:21:42,960 –> 00:21:45,600
village of harper’s choice andrew stack

320
00:21:45,600 –> 00:21:47,760
village of owen brown virginia thomas

321
00:21:47,760 –> 00:21:50,080
village of oakland mills sherry zarat

322
00:21:50,080 –> 00:21:52,720
village of king’s contrivance

323
00:21:52,720 –> 00:21:54,480
whereas pursuant to the terms of the

324
00:21:54,480 –> 00:21:56,720
columbia association charter and bylaws

325
00:21:56,720 –> 00:21:58,799
such columbia council representatives

326
00:21:58,799 –> 00:22:00,880
are members of the corporation

327
00:22:00,880 –> 00:22:03,039
now therefore be it resolved that the

328
00:22:03,039 –> 00:22:05,039
members hereby elect to the board of

329
00:22:05,039 –> 00:22:08,400
directors effective may 12 2022

330
00:22:08,400 –> 00:22:10,559
brian england the newly elected colombia

331
00:22:10,559 –> 00:22:12,080
council representative from hickory

332
00:22:12,080 –> 00:22:14,720
ridge kevin fitzgerald the newly elected

333
00:22:14,720 –> 00:22:16,480
columbia council representative from

334
00:22:16,480 –> 00:22:19,120
town center

335
00:22:19,120 –> 00:22:21,440
bill santos the newly elected columbia

336
00:22:21,440 –> 00:22:25,200
council representative from wild lake

337
00:22:25,200 –> 00:22:28,000
is alan klein considered a new leap

338
00:22:28,000 –> 00:22:30,000
sorry alan klein the newly elected

339
00:22:30,000 –> 00:22:31,919
columbia council representative from

340
00:22:31,919 –> 00:22:33,440
harper’s choice

341
00:22:33,440 –> 00:22:35,039
now therefore be it resolved that the

342
00:22:35,039 –> 00:22:36,960
members hereby reelect to the board of

343
00:22:36,960 –> 00:22:39,760
directors effective may 12 2022 richard

344
00:22:39,760 –> 00:22:41,120
bolton the columbia council

345
00:22:41,120 –> 00:22:43,280
representative dorsey search eric

346
00:22:43,280 –> 00:22:44,720
greenberg the columbia council

347
00:22:44,720 –> 00:22:46,640
representative river hill janet evans

348
00:22:46,640 –> 00:22:48,559
the columbia council representative long

349
00:22:48,559 –> 00:22:50,640
reach andrew stack the columbia council

350
00:22:50,640 –> 00:22:52,480
representative owen brown

351
00:22:52,480 –> 00:22:54,480
virginia thomas the columbia council

352
00:22:54,480 –> 00:22:56,720
representative oakland mills and sherry

353
00:22:56,720 –> 00:22:58,320
zarat the columbia council

354
00:22:58,320 –> 00:23:02,240
representative for king’s contrivance

355
00:23:05,520 –> 00:23:07,840
vote

356
00:23:07,840 –> 00:23:10,080
okay

357
00:23:11,600 –> 00:23:12,320
uh

358
00:23:12,320 –> 00:23:14,320
do we need a motion yeah somebody has to

359
00:23:14,320 –> 00:23:16,320
make a motion to approve the resolution

360
00:23:16,320 –> 00:23:21,520
so moved second jenny moves alan seconds

361
00:23:21,520 –> 00:23:24,480
any discussion

362
00:23:25,280 –> 00:23:27,280
any objections

363
00:23:27,280 –> 00:23:29,360
[Music]

364
00:23:29,360 –> 00:23:31,600
okay

365
00:23:32,000 –> 00:23:35,720
resolution is approved

366
00:23:42,159 –> 00:23:46,480
may i have a motion to adjourn the

367
00:23:47,679 –> 00:23:51,039
organizational uh

368
00:24:00,880 –> 00:24:05,840
sorry remembers me the members meeting

369
00:24:06,000 –> 00:24:08,799
so i moved so yeah eric moves second

370
00:24:08,799 –> 00:24:10,720
jenny seconds

371
00:24:10,720 –> 00:24:12,480
any discussion

372
00:24:12,480 –> 00:24:14,799
any objections

373
00:24:14,799 –> 00:24:17,799
unanimous

374
00:24:30,559 –> 00:24:32,320
is this when we take the pause to sign

375
00:24:32,320 –> 00:24:35,039
the fx okay

376
00:24:35,039 –> 00:24:37,120
we will now take a brief

377
00:24:37,120 –> 00:24:41,880
pause to sign the ethics documentation

378
00:24:42,630 –> 00:24:45,709
[Music]

379
00:24:47,679 –> 00:24:51,559
just take one and pass it down

380
00:24:58,320 –> 00:25:01,480
thank you

381
00:25:06,570 –> 00:25:09,770
[Applause]

382
00:25:13,120 –> 00:25:15,840
yep

383
00:25:19,260 –> 00:25:22,369
[Applause]

384
00:25:26,610 –> 00:25:29,760
[Applause]

385
00:25:34,640 –> 00:25:37,880
thank you

386
00:26:07,600 –> 00:26:10,600
thanks

387
00:26:10,960 –> 00:26:13,960
so

388
00:27:02,799 –> 00:27:05,799
no

389
00:27:49,279 –> 00:27:52,279
um

390
00:27:53,450 –> 00:27:56,539
[Music]

391
00:28:07,360 –> 00:28:10,520
thank you

392
00:28:38,640 –> 00:28:41,799
what’s up

393
00:28:45,360 –> 00:28:48,360
yes

394
00:29:18,050 –> 00:29:21,210
[Applause]

395
00:29:25,840 –> 00:29:27,919
you

396
00:29:53,760 –> 00:29:55,840
you

397
00:30:14,150 –> 00:30:17,319
[Applause]

398
00:30:32,870 –> 00:30:36,040
[Music]

399
00:30:58,720 –> 00:31:01,880
thank you

400
00:31:40,960 –> 00:31:44,079
[Applause]

401
00:31:50,000 –> 00:31:53,000
so

402
00:32:12,480 –> 00:32:15,480
thank

403
00:32:18,640 –> 00:32:21,640
okay

404
00:33:17,039 –> 00:33:20,039
right

405
00:33:27,519 –> 00:33:30,519
so

406
00:33:44,230 –> 00:33:46,000
[Applause]

407
00:33:46,000 –> 00:33:49,420
okay thanks

408
00:33:49,420 –> 00:33:52,619
[Applause]

409
00:34:01,430 –> 00:34:04,579
[Applause]

410
00:34:17,918 –> 00:34:20,918
so

411
00:34:25,550 –> 00:34:28,719
[Music]

412
00:34:39,219 –> 00:34:42,389
[Music]

413
00:34:55,839 –> 00:34:59,240
there are four

414
00:35:21,610 –> 00:35:24,739
[Music]

415
00:35:29,760 –> 00:35:31,839
you

416
00:36:10,560 –> 00:36:13,119
riveting

417
00:36:20,880 –> 00:36:23,880
oh

418
00:36:57,359 –> 00:37:00,359
um

419
00:37:23,359 –> 00:37:24,880
is there anyone who has not signed the

420
00:37:24,880 –> 00:37:26,800
documents that were passed out

421
00:37:26,800 –> 00:37:29,359
uh dick has not signed them

422
00:37:29,359 –> 00:37:31,200
i’m sorry dick bolton has not signed

423
00:37:31,200 –> 00:37:33,359
them

424
00:37:35,280 –> 00:37:39,359
so that’s i’ll state for the record um

425
00:37:39,359 –> 00:37:41,920
that this board did pass

426
00:37:41,920 –> 00:37:45,359
or approve i should say a policy

427
00:37:45,359 –> 00:37:46,400
um

428
00:37:46,400 –> 00:37:50,240
it was dated september 23rd 2021

429
00:37:50,240 –> 00:37:52,480
stating that anybody or any board member

430
00:37:52,480 –> 00:37:54,000
who fails to sign

431
00:37:54,000 –> 00:37:56,480
the cs the ca ethics policies

432
00:37:56,480 –> 00:37:58,480
is not permitted to vote

433
00:37:58,480 –> 00:38:00,880
in a board member meeting

434
00:38:00,880 –> 00:38:02,880
or to vote

435
00:38:02,880 –> 00:38:05,040
or attend a closed meeting

436
00:38:05,040 –> 00:38:06,560
so i would just state that for the

437
00:38:06,560 –> 00:38:08,480
record

438
00:38:08,480 –> 00:38:10,880
okay

439
00:38:11,680 –> 00:38:13,200
i’d like to make a statement for the

440
00:38:13,200 –> 00:38:16,760
record as well

441
00:38:18,240 –> 00:38:20,720
proceed

442
00:38:20,800 –> 00:38:24,079
uh our government governing documents uh

443
00:38:24,079 –> 00:38:25,520
do not

444
00:38:25,520 –> 00:38:29,520
allow a member to be denied a vote

445
00:38:29,520 –> 00:38:32,000
so that resolution yes that was a very

446
00:38:32,000 –> 00:38:33,839
nice thing to do

447
00:38:33,839 –> 00:38:36,400
but uh it’s invalid

448
00:38:36,400 –> 00:38:39,359
and uh furthermore i intend to vote uh

449
00:38:39,359 –> 00:38:42,400
at the meeting tonight

450
00:38:42,720 –> 00:38:44,880
um i believe are you referring to the to

451
00:38:44,880 –> 00:38:46,560
the charter where it says that all

452
00:38:46,560 –> 00:38:49,520
members are entitled to vote yes i am um

453
00:38:49,520 –> 00:38:52,320
and again this is just for the record um

454
00:38:52,320 –> 00:38:54,160
each director entitled to a vote is what

455
00:38:54,160 –> 00:38:55,359
it reads

456
00:38:55,359 –> 00:38:56,320
um

457
00:38:56,320 –> 00:38:58,720
you know entitled

458
00:38:58,720 –> 00:39:00,800
is a specific word used

459
00:39:00,800 –> 00:39:01,760
so

460
00:39:01,760 –> 00:39:04,880
one could say that um this policy says

461
00:39:04,880 –> 00:39:06,000
that

462
00:39:06,000 –> 00:39:07,599
an individual who’s not does not sign

463
00:39:07,599 –> 00:39:09,040
the ethics policies

464
00:39:09,040 –> 00:39:11,200
is therefore not entitled to vote

465
00:39:11,200 –> 00:39:14,160
um so it’s my recommendation that

466
00:39:14,160 –> 00:39:15,680
this board follow the policy that it

467
00:39:15,680 –> 00:39:16,880
passed

468
00:39:16,880 –> 00:39:19,839
in september 23rd 2021 and i would like

469
00:39:19,839 –> 00:39:21,599
to point out that other board members

470
00:39:21,599 –> 00:39:23,280
who were unable to be here in person

471
00:39:23,280 –> 00:39:25,440
made arrangements to come and do it

472
00:39:25,440 –> 00:39:27,280
prior to the meeting

473
00:39:27,280 –> 00:39:29,440
i would also like to point out that it’s

474
00:39:29,440 –> 00:39:31,760
not when it’s convenient that you follow

475
00:39:31,760 –> 00:39:33,680
policy you either follow it or you don’t

476
00:39:33,680 –> 00:39:36,000
so if you want to state policy

477
00:39:36,000 –> 00:39:38,000
and use that as

478
00:39:38,000 –> 00:39:40,400
a reason to not proceed with

479
00:39:40,400 –> 00:39:41,440
something

480
00:39:41,440 –> 00:39:44,079
then that’s the way we do it and so it

481
00:39:44,079 –> 00:39:46,960
applies across the board

482
00:39:46,960 –> 00:39:49,040
alan i would absolutely agree that

483
00:39:49,040 –> 00:39:51,200
policies apply across the board and i

484
00:39:51,200 –> 00:39:53,920
agree with dick that

485
00:39:53,920 –> 00:39:54,839
the

486
00:39:54,839 –> 00:39:58,079
uh charter is is pretty clear it just

487
00:39:58,079 –> 00:39:59,839
uses the word shall

488
00:39:59,839 –> 00:40:01,680
that’s very determinative

489
00:40:01,680 –> 00:40:03,040
and that

490
00:40:03,040 –> 00:40:05,599
statement about the

491
00:40:05,599 –> 00:40:09,119
entitled devotee immediately follows

492
00:40:09,119 –> 00:40:10,960
paragraph where it talks about this

493
00:40:10,960 –> 00:40:12,160
president

494
00:40:12,160 –> 00:40:13,920
not being entitled to a vote being an

495
00:40:13,920 –> 00:40:15,920
ex-official member and not entitled to a

496
00:40:15,920 –> 00:40:18,079
vote as far as i can tell there’s no

497
00:40:18,079 –> 00:40:19,359
other

498
00:40:19,359 –> 00:40:21,760
uh mention in the charter

499
00:40:21,760 –> 00:40:25,119
of who is and who isn’t eligible to vote

500
00:40:25,119 –> 00:40:26,480
so it’s

501
00:40:26,480 –> 00:40:28,560
pretty clear to me that that we can’t

502
00:40:28,560 –> 00:40:30,560
create policies

503
00:40:30,560 –> 00:40:31,520
that

504
00:40:31,520 –> 00:40:33,520
violate the charter we’d have to amend

505
00:40:33,520 –> 00:40:34,880
the charter first

506
00:40:34,880 –> 00:40:36,960
and then create the policy that followed

507
00:40:36,960 –> 00:40:40,160
the charter so pretty clear to me that

508
00:40:40,160 –> 00:40:42,560
if dick has a vote it’s pretty clear to

509
00:40:42,560 –> 00:40:44,160
me that policy is only followed when

510
00:40:44,160 –> 00:40:47,040
it’s convenient and

511
00:40:47,040 –> 00:40:48,720
if if everyone was so worried about it

512
00:40:48,720 –> 00:40:50,160
then why didn’t it come up last year

513
00:40:50,160 –> 00:40:53,839
when we created the policy

514
00:40:55,790 –> 00:40:57,680
[Applause]

515
00:40:57,680 –> 00:40:58,800
so

516
00:40:58,800 –> 00:41:01,280
thank you for your input i choose to

517
00:41:01,280 –> 00:41:03,520
adhere to what our general counsel is

518
00:41:03,520 –> 00:41:05,200
sharing with us since that is what he is

519
00:41:05,200 –> 00:41:06,880
hired to do and that is how i will

520
00:41:06,880 –> 00:41:08,880
proceed

521
00:41:08,880 –> 00:41:10,880
a point of

522
00:41:10,880 –> 00:41:12,960
trophies order information

523
00:41:12,960 –> 00:41:16,960
where in the powers of the chair is that

524
00:41:17,280 –> 00:41:19,359
where do they not

525
00:41:19,359 –> 00:41:21,760
well it could be a vote of the group

526
00:41:21,760 –> 00:41:23,040
if there’s not a

527
00:41:23,040 –> 00:41:24,800
designated power to the chair i’m not

528
00:41:24,800 –> 00:41:26,560
clear how the chair has the power to

529
00:41:26,560 –> 00:41:28,560
deny somebody about

530
00:41:28,560 –> 00:41:30,560
uh it was the policy that this board

531
00:41:30,560 –> 00:41:33,680
voted on a year ago

532
00:41:33,680 –> 00:41:36,240
that denies the vote and so policy is in

533
00:41:36,240 –> 00:41:37,760
violation of the charter then it’s an

534
00:41:37,760 –> 00:41:39,760
invalid policy

535
00:41:39,760 –> 00:41:41,520
our general counsel just said it was not

536
00:41:41,520 –> 00:41:43,359
in violation of the charter in his

537
00:41:43,359 –> 00:41:47,359
opinion well that’s that’s his opinion

538
00:41:47,680 –> 00:41:51,280
it’s up to the board to decide yeah

539
00:41:51,280 –> 00:41:53,599
how about we resolve it with a vote well

540
00:41:53,599 –> 00:41:56,240
that’s super convenient alan really

541
00:41:56,240 –> 00:41:58,079
i don’t know why it’s super convenient

542
00:41:58,079 –> 00:41:59,839
well because i will just say that we’ve

543
00:41:59,839 –> 00:42:01,680
recently had an incident on this board

544
00:42:01,680 –> 00:42:03,920
where people hid behind policy

545
00:42:03,920 –> 00:42:05,760
where they insisted that we follow

546
00:42:05,760 –> 00:42:06,880
policy

547
00:42:06,880 –> 00:42:08,400
whether or not it was the right thing to

548
00:42:08,400 –> 00:42:09,119
do

549
00:42:09,119 –> 00:42:11,680
and now when it’s convenient to not

550
00:42:11,680 –> 00:42:13,920
follow policy

551
00:42:13,920 –> 00:42:15,200
then that’s what

552
00:42:15,200 –> 00:42:17,359
and dick was one of the ones

553
00:42:17,359 –> 00:42:19,200
spouting policy i’m not sure what you’re

554
00:42:19,200 –> 00:42:20,560
talking about you don’t know what i’m

555
00:42:20,560 –> 00:42:22,319
talking about that’s correct but i will

556
00:42:22,319 –> 00:42:23,520
assure you

557
00:42:23,520 –> 00:42:26,480
that the double standard in hypocrisy

558
00:42:26,480 –> 00:42:30,040
does not go unnoted

559
00:42:30,160 –> 00:42:31,280
i hear you

560
00:42:31,280 –> 00:42:33,520
uh wes can you please provide some

561
00:42:33,520 –> 00:42:35,520
guidance here because i don’t know i

562
00:42:35,520 –> 00:42:39,359
mean i’ll state again it’s um

563
00:42:39,680 –> 00:42:40,640
the

564
00:42:40,640 –> 00:42:42,000
the policy that was voted on and

565
00:42:42,000 –> 00:42:43,839
approved by this board unanimously in

566
00:42:43,839 –> 00:42:46,800
september of 2021

567
00:42:46,800 –> 00:42:48,640
does not contradict the charter the

568
00:42:48,640 –> 00:42:49,839
charter says

569
00:42:49,839 –> 00:42:51,920
any member any member who is entitled to

570
00:42:51,920 –> 00:42:52,800
a vote

571
00:42:52,800 –> 00:42:53,920
and

572
00:42:53,920 –> 00:42:56,319
that policy would indicate that if you

573
00:42:56,319 –> 00:42:58,640
don’t sign the ethics policies

574
00:42:58,640 –> 00:43:01,520
then you are not entitled to a vote um

575
00:43:01,520 –> 00:43:03,280
and i that’s

576
00:43:03,280 –> 00:43:04,880
that’s my it’s my recommendation that

577
00:43:04,880 –> 00:43:06,319
this board followed the policy that

578
00:43:06,319 –> 00:43:08,400
unanimous unanimously passed in

579
00:43:08,400 –> 00:43:10,000
september 2021 that’s just my

580
00:43:10,000 –> 00:43:13,000
recommendation

581
00:43:15,520 –> 00:43:16,400
jenny

582
00:43:16,400 –> 00:43:19,440
yeah um i’d like to see us move on i

583
00:43:19,440 –> 00:43:21,280
think the reality is

584
00:43:21,280 –> 00:43:23,839
dick has an open mic he will probably

585
00:43:23,839 –> 00:43:24,960
vote

586
00:43:24,960 –> 00:43:27,680
when he wants to vote but i think unless

587
00:43:27,680 –> 00:43:30,079
it’s a close vote it really doesn’t make

588
00:43:30,079 –> 00:43:32,000
any difference tonight

589
00:43:32,000 –> 00:43:33,920
while we work on this at some other

590
00:43:33,920 –> 00:43:36,079
point i hear what both sides are saying

591
00:43:36,079 –> 00:43:38,640
but i’d like to keep us moving on if

592
00:43:38,640 –> 00:43:40,160
possible

593
00:43:40,160 –> 00:43:42,160
if we wind up with a thai vote then

594
00:43:42,160 –> 00:43:44,880
we’ve got a problem but if we don’t

595
00:43:44,880 –> 00:43:46,960
let’s just move on you made your

596
00:43:46,960 –> 00:43:50,240
decision and we move on

597
00:43:50,240 –> 00:43:51,119
alan

598
00:43:51,119 –> 00:43:53,599
i’d just like to ask our general counsel

599
00:43:53,599 –> 00:43:56,319
if if this board passed a policy

600
00:43:56,319 –> 00:43:59,119
unanimously that said that only people

601
00:43:59,119 –> 00:44:01,280
who come from villages that start with

602
00:44:01,280 –> 00:44:03,440
the letter h

603
00:44:03,440 –> 00:44:05,200
can vote

604
00:44:05,200 –> 00:44:07,520
would you see that as in conformity with

605
00:44:07,520 –> 00:44:08,400
the charter

606
00:44:08,400 –> 00:44:10,480
at this time i’m not going to indulge in

607
00:44:10,480 –> 00:44:12,319
hypotheticals i’m going to speak only to

608
00:44:12,319 –> 00:44:14,160
the matter that’s before me and that

609
00:44:14,160 –> 00:44:16,160
matter is whether or not an individual

610
00:44:16,160 –> 00:44:16,960
who

611
00:44:16,960 –> 00:44:18,480
has not signed the ethics policies is

612
00:44:18,480 –> 00:44:20,800
permitted to vote in a board meeting so

613
00:44:20,800 –> 00:44:22,319
i’m i’ve given my recommendation and

614
00:44:22,319 –> 00:44:23,760
i’ll leave it at that

615
00:44:23,760 –> 00:44:25,680
ladies and gentlemen once again we’re in

616
00:44:25,680 –> 00:44:28,160
a catch-22 could we please move on

617
00:44:28,160 –> 00:44:30,240
you’ve heard what everybody has to say

618
00:44:30,240 –> 00:44:32,800
and the chair made a decision tell me

619
00:44:32,800 –> 00:44:34,240
we’d like to take over the meeting here

620
00:44:34,240 –> 00:44:38,319
no no we start on the agenda let’s go

621
00:44:38,880 –> 00:44:41,599
it matters if he can vote or not

622
00:44:41,599 –> 00:44:43,280
no the recording is the difference

623
00:44:43,280 –> 00:44:45,520
whether it’s recorded or not he will

624
00:44:45,520 –> 00:44:48,240
vote because he’s going to vote verbally

625
00:44:48,240 –> 00:44:50,079
you can’t do anything about that but

626
00:44:50,079 –> 00:44:52,240
whether it’s recorded or not and as i

627
00:44:52,240 –> 00:44:53,200
say

628
00:44:53,200 –> 00:44:54,800
if it’s not a close vote it doesn’t

629
00:44:54,800 –> 00:44:57,599
matter so let’s just uh move on we can

630
00:44:57,599 –> 00:45:00,480
deal with the policy at another time

631
00:45:00,480 –> 00:45:02,240
uh we’re not going to resolve it tonight

632
00:45:02,240 –> 00:45:04,880
there are two different points of view

633
00:45:04,880 –> 00:45:07,359
we need to take it up as a board as uh

634
00:45:07,359 –> 00:45:09,200
whether we want that policy or not or we

635
00:45:09,200 –> 00:45:10,960
want to clarify it but that shouldn’t be

636
00:45:10,960 –> 00:45:13,200
will not be done tonight am i missing

637
00:45:13,200 –> 00:45:14,800
something yeah you’re missing the

638
00:45:14,800 –> 00:45:17,200
precedent no i understand all that but

639
00:45:17,200 –> 00:45:18,800
let’s uh i

640
00:45:18,800 –> 00:45:20,960
i think it’s that’s a lousy precedent if

641
00:45:20,960 –> 00:45:22,000
we

642
00:45:22,000 –> 00:45:24,079
let this happen

643
00:45:24,079 –> 00:45:26,960
can we let me just say i i’m gonna hold

644
00:45:26,960 –> 00:45:29,680
off for now and i understand we have an

645
00:45:29,680 –> 00:45:32,000
election coming up for a new board chair

646
00:45:32,000 –> 00:45:36,640
and then let’s deal with it at that time

647
00:45:37,119 –> 00:45:40,800
okay okay let’s move on

648
00:45:45,280 –> 00:45:47,280
okay this meeting is being live streamed

649
00:45:47,280 –> 00:45:48,800
i’m not going to read all that again but

650
00:45:48,800 –> 00:45:52,640
i will be taking roll call

651
00:45:55,200 –> 00:45:56,800
dick

652
00:45:56,800 –> 00:45:57,760
i’m here

653
00:45:57,760 –> 00:46:00,480
eric yeah brian

654
00:46:00,480 –> 00:46:02,960
here kevin here

655
00:46:02,960 –> 00:46:04,160
i am here

656
00:46:04,160 –> 00:46:07,440
is bill has biller joined us

657
00:46:07,440 –> 00:46:10,240
andy or alan here

658
00:46:10,240 –> 00:46:14,480
andy president jenny here sherry yeah

659
00:46:14,480 –> 00:46:17,440
lakey here

660
00:46:20,560 –> 00:46:22,240
okay can i have a motion to approve the

661
00:46:22,240 –> 00:46:24,000
agenda go moved

662
00:46:24,000 –> 00:46:29,000
okay jenny moves eric seconds

663
00:46:30,000 –> 00:46:30,880
any discussion

664
00:46:30,880 –> 00:46:32,640
[Music]

665
00:46:32,640 –> 00:46:35,359
any objection

666
00:46:36,640 –> 00:46:37,760
okay

667
00:46:37,760 –> 00:46:40,839
election of chair and vice chair of the

668
00:46:40,839 –> 00:46:45,760
board floor is open for nominations

669
00:46:46,079 –> 00:46:47,520
i nominate

670
00:46:47,520 –> 00:46:50,319
uh jenny thomas for like

671
00:46:50,319 –> 00:46:51,839
oh we’re going to start with chairs

672
00:46:51,839 –> 00:46:54,480
sorry that’s all right now it’s okay

673
00:46:54,480 –> 00:46:55,920
the boards have been on they start with

674
00:46:55,920 –> 00:46:57,280
vice chair and then they go to church

675
00:46:57,280 –> 00:46:59,839
sorry about that

676
00:46:59,839 –> 00:47:01,760
i could be wrong because you know

677
00:47:01,760 –> 00:47:04,400
no i think you think you’re correct

678
00:47:04,400 –> 00:47:06,880
sorry about all right can i i will

679
00:47:06,880 –> 00:47:11,160
accept nominations for chair

680
00:47:11,440 –> 00:47:13,920
i would like to nominate eric greenberg

681
00:47:13,920 –> 00:47:16,960
second except

682
00:47:17,200 –> 00:47:20,800
i’d like to nominate andy stack

683
00:47:22,240 –> 00:47:25,040
do i have a second does a nomination

684
00:47:25,040 –> 00:47:27,359
require a second i guess it doesn’t no

685
00:47:27,359 –> 00:47:29,839
yeah doesn’t it no no no no i think no

686
00:47:29,839 –> 00:47:31,520
one just needs to be made

687
00:47:31,520 –> 00:47:33,280
okay i didn’t realize that

688
00:47:33,280 –> 00:47:34,960
okay aaron eric would you like to make a

689
00:47:34,960 –> 00:47:35,920
statement

690
00:47:35,920 –> 00:47:38,880
yeah i would so i’ve great i’ve only

691
00:47:38,880 –> 00:47:40,880
been on the board uh six months now but

692
00:47:40,880 –> 00:47:42,240
i think i’ve learned a lot on this board

693
00:47:42,240 –> 00:47:43,359
and i think i’ve got a lot of

694
00:47:43,359 –> 00:47:45,280
interesting ideas and i think the key

695
00:47:45,280 –> 00:47:47,440
thing for this board going forward is

696
00:47:47,440 –> 00:47:49,520
sending a message of unity and

697
00:47:49,520 –> 00:47:51,280
and collectiveness and being able to

698
00:47:51,280 –> 00:47:53,119
really work for

699
00:47:53,119 –> 00:47:55,920
all of colombia

700
00:47:56,960 –> 00:47:58,160
sorry

701
00:47:58,160 –> 00:47:59,760
andy

702
00:47:59,760 –> 00:48:02,640
um yeah i just uh i did send out an

703
00:48:02,640 –> 00:48:04,720
email to everybody saying

704
00:48:04,720 –> 00:48:06,640
what i would hope the next chair would

705
00:48:06,640 –> 00:48:07,440
do

706
00:48:07,440 –> 00:48:08,640
um

707
00:48:08,640 –> 00:48:10,240
and uh

708
00:48:10,240 –> 00:48:12,240
you know i do think that the important

709
00:48:12,240 –> 00:48:14,079
thing is to improve relations and

710
00:48:14,079 –> 00:48:16,160
communicate nations among

711
00:48:16,160 –> 00:48:18,800
the 11 board members and then the second

712
00:48:18,800 –> 00:48:21,200
is improved relations with the villages

713
00:48:21,200 –> 00:48:24,000
um and then third is um

714
00:48:24,000 –> 00:48:26,319
to lessen the burden on the chair give

715
00:48:26,319 –> 00:48:28,160
the vice chair more

716
00:48:28,160 –> 00:48:31,119
responsibilities officially um

717
00:48:31,119 –> 00:48:33,440
and i think that um

718
00:48:33,440 –> 00:48:35,920
one of the the difficulties we’ve had in

719
00:48:35,920 –> 00:48:37,119
the past

720
00:48:37,119 –> 00:48:39,680
has been

721
00:48:39,760 –> 00:48:42,079
i’ll say a lack of

722
00:48:42,079 –> 00:48:44,640
procedures

723
00:48:44,640 –> 00:48:46,800
necessarily following the procedures

724
00:48:46,800 –> 00:48:50,079
particularly for how we

725
00:48:50,079 –> 00:48:52,720
operate on the board and

726
00:48:52,720 –> 00:48:54,640
so i just put together

727
00:48:54,640 –> 00:48:56,880
a bunch of

728
00:48:56,880 –> 00:48:58,800
bullets that

729
00:48:58,800 –> 00:49:00,480
kind of reference the policies that

730
00:49:00,480 –> 00:49:02,400
we’ve done the procedures we’ve done

731
00:49:02,400 –> 00:49:04,640
over the past year and i would like to

732
00:49:04,640 –> 00:49:07,440
that we continue to do those and if i do

733
00:49:07,440 –> 00:49:09,200
get to be chair i will certainly

734
00:49:09,200 –> 00:49:10,319
continue

735
00:49:10,319 –> 00:49:11,599
um

736
00:49:11,599 –> 00:49:14,079
and i think

737
00:49:14,319 –> 00:49:18,079
they will help us focus much better on

738
00:49:18,079 –> 00:49:20,319
being productive

739
00:49:20,319 –> 00:49:24,079
thank you andy now in terms of um

740
00:49:24,079 –> 00:49:25,280
as i said the

741
00:49:25,280 –> 00:49:27,119
three things that i think need to focus

742
00:49:27,119 –> 00:49:28,960
on for at least the chair i mean in

743
00:49:28,960 –> 00:49:30,000
addition to just the usual

744
00:49:30,000 –> 00:49:31,760
administrative stuff is

745
00:49:31,760 –> 00:49:36,079
on improving the communications and

746
00:49:36,079 –> 00:49:37,520
the interaction among all the board

747
00:49:37,520 –> 00:49:41,200
members that’s really crucial

748
00:49:42,559 –> 00:49:44,720
so point of order how do we do we just

749
00:49:44,720 –> 00:49:47,200
take nominations first and then we vote

750
00:49:47,200 –> 00:49:48,960
yeah we just vote

751
00:49:48,960 –> 00:49:51,680
cool for everything at once though oh

752
00:49:51,680 –> 00:49:53,200
do we vote for everything he wants no i

753
00:49:53,200 –> 00:49:55,280
think we just we vote on each office we

754
00:49:55,280 –> 00:49:58,240
used to vote on a ballot i was just

755
00:49:58,240 –> 00:50:00,480
going to say it should be a closed

756
00:50:00,480 –> 00:50:01,359
ballot

757
00:50:01,359 –> 00:50:02,880
everyone should have a piece of paper

758
00:50:02,880 –> 00:50:05,440
and i believe you do the chair first and

759
00:50:05,440 –> 00:50:07,520
the vice chair second oh good so i can

760
00:50:07,520 –> 00:50:09,119
hand it over

761
00:50:09,119 –> 00:50:10,480
excellent

762
00:50:10,480 –> 00:50:14,240
um so i believe janet has a process for

763
00:50:14,240 –> 00:50:18,480
us and for those of you who are virtual

764
00:50:20,240 –> 00:50:24,359
uh can someone give her a mic

765
00:50:38,480 –> 00:50:41,040
send it to

766
00:50:43,680 –> 00:50:46,680
um

767
00:51:03,359 –> 00:51:05,839
janet laughlin i’m just i’m clarifying

768
00:51:05,839 –> 00:51:08,319
which janet janet longrein

769
00:51:08,319 –> 00:51:10,240
if you can just briefly describe that

770
00:51:10,240 –> 00:51:12,000
we’re going to vote by paper ballot and

771
00:51:12,000 –> 00:51:13,599
then what the people online are going to

772
00:51:13,599 –> 00:51:14,960
do

773
00:51:14,960 –> 00:51:18,079
um we are passing around paper ballots

774
00:51:18,079 –> 00:51:21,200
and each everyone will get a ballot

775
00:51:21,200 –> 00:51:25,040
please fill in the oval or check however

776
00:51:25,040 –> 00:51:27,839
your candidate of choice those ballots

777
00:51:27,839 –> 00:51:30,800
will be collected

778
00:51:30,800 –> 00:51:32,319
by the president

779
00:51:32,319 –> 00:51:37,640
and with the assistance of a

780
00:51:43,280 –> 00:51:46,079
who are attending virtually

781
00:51:46,079 –> 00:51:48,880
they are going to receive a link

782
00:51:48,880 –> 00:51:50,720
to the same ballot that you are

783
00:51:50,720 –> 00:51:52,000
receiving

784
00:51:52,000 –> 00:51:54,640
they will vote and those votes will be

785
00:51:54,640 –> 00:51:57,280
captured and put into

786
00:51:57,280 –> 00:51:59,200
an excel spreadsheet

787
00:51:59,200 –> 00:52:01,200
the excel spreadsheet will come to my

788
00:52:01,200 –> 00:52:03,440
computer and then i am going to share

789
00:52:03,440 –> 00:52:05,119
those results

790
00:52:05,119 –> 00:52:08,079
with um the president

791
00:52:08,079 –> 00:52:09,839
the senior vice president and the

792
00:52:09,839 –> 00:52:11,599
general counsel so that they will see

793
00:52:11,599 –> 00:52:13,280
the same information

794
00:52:13,280 –> 00:52:15,200
that i am seeing

795
00:52:15,200 –> 00:52:17,200
and for the purposes of those in

796
00:52:17,200 –> 00:52:20,480
attendance i will be glad to

797
00:52:20,480 –> 00:52:21,760
state

798
00:52:21,760 –> 00:52:24,880
which candidate or candidates received a

799
00:52:24,880 –> 00:52:28,880
vote from the virtual attendees

800
00:52:30,240 –> 00:52:32,319
point you’re going to say how the

801
00:52:32,319 –> 00:52:34,720
virtual attendees voted

802
00:52:34,720 –> 00:52:38,000
no there will not there are no names

803
00:52:38,000 –> 00:52:42,240
attached all i see is a time stamp and

804
00:52:42,240 –> 00:52:44,720
the name of the person from whom they

805
00:52:44,720 –> 00:52:47,280
voted i do not see

806
00:52:47,280 –> 00:52:49,839
which attendee voted for what person

807
00:52:49,839 –> 00:52:51,839
okay but if they both vote for the same

808
00:52:51,839 –> 00:52:53,760
person then we’ll know who they voted

809
00:52:53,760 –> 00:52:55,040
for

810
00:52:55,040 –> 00:52:57,119
so that’s correct i just hope none of us

811
00:52:57,119 –> 00:52:59,119
ask to see that because that’s not

812
00:52:59,119 –> 00:53:00,559
information we should have about who

813
00:53:00,559 –> 00:53:02,319
voted for what

814
00:53:02,319 –> 00:53:04,880
if i share it with the people

815
00:53:04,880 –> 00:53:08,000
don’t we add them all up together

816
00:53:08,000 –> 00:53:09,280
yeah yeah

817
00:53:09,280 –> 00:53:11,520
i hear you wanting to ensure that that

818
00:53:11,520 –> 00:53:13,599
we have confidence that everything’s on

819
00:53:13,599 –> 00:53:15,599
the up and up but

820
00:53:15,599 –> 00:53:18,880
i don’t i think it exposes people to

821
00:53:18,880 –> 00:53:20,559
whereas i mean unless we’re all going to

822
00:53:20,559 –> 00:53:22,319
share who we voted for then then we

823
00:53:22,319 –> 00:53:26,440
should all share who we voted for

824
00:53:31,520 –> 00:53:33,119
okay all right

825
00:53:33,119 –> 00:53:35,280
all right can you initiate the poll i’ll

826
00:53:35,280 –> 00:53:37,200
start to collect the ballots okay in the

827
00:53:37,200 –> 00:53:41,480
room so hold on

828
00:53:41,830 –> 00:53:43,440
[Applause]

829
00:53:43,440 –> 00:53:45,760
okay

830
00:53:50,559 –> 00:53:53,720
thank you

831
00:54:03,280 –> 00:54:05,440
another option janna would be just to

832
00:54:05,440 –> 00:54:07,680
put them in a chat in a breakout room

833
00:54:07,680 –> 00:54:08,880
with you and

834
00:54:08,880 –> 00:54:11,040
just

835
00:54:16,480 –> 00:54:20,200
that’s what we did in our village

836
00:54:27,040 –> 00:54:30,040
is

837
00:54:57,200 –> 00:55:00,200
uh

838
00:55:12,160 –> 00:55:15,160
so

839
00:55:26,570 –> 00:55:31,580
[Music]

840
00:55:44,880 –> 00:55:48,000
it’s only brian voting dick city

841
00:55:48,000 –> 00:55:50,079
uh dick and brian can you confirm that

842
00:55:50,079 –> 00:55:51,359
you’ve um

843
00:55:51,359 –> 00:55:54,240
executed your vote

844
00:55:54,240 –> 00:55:56,559
i i haven’t seen anything appear on my

845
00:55:56,559 –> 00:55:58,880
screen

846
00:56:01,040 –> 00:56:03,040
i got the email i didn’t receive it i’m

847
00:56:03,040 –> 00:56:05,280
just about to vote okay well let me uh

848
00:56:05,280 –> 00:56:07,040
thank you let me see if i can get an

849
00:56:07,040 –> 00:56:10,040
email

850
00:56:16,720 –> 00:56:20,520
okay i have an email

851
00:56:30,720 –> 00:56:33,720
okay

852
00:56:47,440 –> 00:56:50,440
yes

853
00:57:06,559 –> 00:57:09,599
okay we have a total of nine votes

854
00:57:09,599 –> 00:57:12,559
and eric greenberg is the new chair

855
00:57:12,559 –> 00:57:16,359
congratulations here

856
00:57:36,640 –> 00:57:39,640
yes

857
00:57:46,960 –> 00:57:49,960
so

858
00:58:09,760 –> 00:58:11,680
thank you can i please have a

859
00:58:11,680 –> 00:58:13,599
motion to accept nominations for vice

860
00:58:13,599 –> 00:58:15,839
chair

861
00:58:16,799 –> 00:58:19,799
solved

862
00:58:22,799 –> 00:58:24,319
do we have any nominations for vice

863
00:58:24,319 –> 00:58:26,160
chair

864
00:58:26,160 –> 00:58:28,480
i’ll go ahead

865
00:58:28,480 –> 00:58:31,119
got this backwards

866
00:58:31,119 –> 00:58:32,799
i uh

867
00:58:32,799 –> 00:58:35,040
move to have uh virginia thomas b vice

868
00:58:35,040 –> 00:58:36,720
share please

869
00:58:36,720 –> 00:58:38,960
second

870
00:58:40,000 –> 00:58:43,680
do you have any other nominations

871
00:58:45,119 –> 00:58:47,839
that case motion passes

872
00:58:47,839 –> 00:58:52,480
congratulations thank you thank you

873
00:58:56,400 –> 00:58:58,720
next on the agenda is um appointing of

874
00:58:58,720 –> 00:59:00,000
the audit committee

875
00:59:00,000 –> 00:59:01,839
um

876
00:59:01,839 –> 00:59:05,760
jackie tuma here oh

877
00:59:05,760 –> 00:59:09,520
yeah i just i just wanted to say um

878
00:59:09,520 –> 00:59:12,960
thank you to janet for her service as

879
00:59:12,960 –> 00:59:15,040
chair this past year

880
00:59:15,040 –> 00:59:18,640
i also want to recognize andy for his

881
00:59:18,640 –> 00:59:20,640
service to this board and to the

882
00:59:20,640 –> 00:59:23,440
columbia community he has been

883
00:59:23,440 –> 00:59:25,599
a major force

884
00:59:25,599 –> 00:59:28,720
for many many years we hope he continues

885
00:59:28,720 –> 00:59:31,440
um and we rely on him his prodigious

886
00:59:31,440 –> 00:59:32,640
memory

887
00:59:32,640 –> 00:59:35,280
and and history and his contribution

888
00:59:35,280 –> 00:59:37,760
here so i really want to say thank you

889
00:59:37,760 –> 00:59:40,720
to to all of the board members who

890
00:59:40,720 –> 00:59:42,160
um are very

891
00:59:42,160 –> 00:59:44,319
dedicated and committed

892
00:59:44,319 –> 00:59:46,799
to the columbia community and especially

893
00:59:46,799 –> 00:59:50,319
say thank you um for the new folks

894
00:59:50,319 –> 00:59:52,880
who are coming on the board welcome

895
00:59:52,880 –> 00:59:57,359
thank you congratulations eric thank you

896
00:59:57,520 –> 00:59:59,040
and thank you and thank you for that

897
00:59:59,040 –> 01:00:00,480
introduction um

898
01:00:00,480 –> 01:00:01,920
and as you can tell i’ve only been on

899
01:00:01,920 –> 01:00:04,319
the board six months and so one thing i

900
01:00:04,319 –> 01:00:06,559
will definitely help from is

901
01:00:06,559 –> 01:00:09,359
learning uh policies and procedures and

902
01:00:09,359 –> 01:00:10,880
i think it’d be definitely helpful to

903
01:00:10,880 –> 01:00:13,040
have someone on this board who’s whose

904
01:00:13,040 –> 01:00:14,480
role is to

905
01:00:14,480 –> 01:00:16,319
help the board enforce our policies and

906
01:00:16,319 –> 01:00:18,880
procedures

907
01:00:20,160 –> 01:00:21,440
can i get can i get a motion to

908
01:00:21,440 –> 01:00:23,599
establish the role of parliamentarian so

909
01:00:23,599 –> 01:00:25,920
moved

910
01:00:26,400 –> 01:00:28,720
is there a second

911
01:00:28,720 –> 01:00:30,160
second

912
01:00:30,160 –> 01:00:32,720
is there any discussion

913
01:00:32,720 –> 01:00:34,559
i guess i’d like to hear more about what

914
01:00:34,559 –> 01:00:36,240
yours or anybody else’s thoughts are

915
01:00:36,240 –> 01:00:37,200
about

916
01:00:37,200 –> 01:00:39,359
qualifications

917
01:00:39,359 –> 01:00:40,720
you know i don’t know i certainly don’t

918
01:00:40,720 –> 01:00:42,480
feel like i’m

919
01:00:42,480 –> 01:00:44,400
i’ve got the little robert jewels of

920
01:00:44,400 –> 01:00:46,319
order book that they gave us when i

921
01:00:46,319 –> 01:00:47,920
first became a board member some years

922
01:00:47,920 –> 01:00:49,440
ago but that doesn’t mean i’m an expert

923
01:00:49,440 –> 01:00:50,880
in the

924
01:00:50,880 –> 01:00:52,720
in the field well it’s more than just

925
01:00:52,720 –> 01:00:54,160
robert’s rules of order it’s also

926
01:00:54,160 –> 01:00:55,680
interpreting our own policies our own

927
01:00:55,680 –> 01:00:58,000
bylaws or on charter and

928
01:00:58,000 –> 01:01:00,079
helping us get through those situations

929
01:01:00,079 –> 01:01:02,559
where there might be confusion as far as

930
01:01:02,559 –> 01:01:04,400
what our policies are

931
01:01:04,400 –> 01:01:06,880
so if there comes an issue like we had

932
01:01:06,880 –> 01:01:08,880
earlier that could be referred to the

933
01:01:08,880 –> 01:01:10,960
parliamentarian for for an option for an

934
01:01:10,960 –> 01:01:13,520
opinion janet uh how could a board

935
01:01:13,520 –> 01:01:16,400
member determine that if we wanted to

936
01:01:16,400 –> 01:01:18,240
accept the guidance of our general

937
01:01:18,240 –> 01:01:20,720
counsel

938
01:01:21,920 –> 01:01:23,440
helen i

939
01:01:23,440 –> 01:01:24,640
have the same

940
01:01:24,640 –> 01:01:25,520
thought

941
01:01:25,520 –> 01:01:27,920
a different ending you know it’s like

942
01:01:27,920 –> 01:01:30,640
if it’s if it’s one of us who does that

943
01:01:30,640 –> 01:01:33,200
i guess i’d be concerned that

944
01:01:33,200 –> 01:01:35,200
that person would have a position

945
01:01:35,200 –> 01:01:37,520
and that that position might

946
01:01:37,520 –> 01:01:39,040
advertently or inadvertently get in the

947
01:01:39,040 –> 01:01:40,559
way of being an even-handed

948
01:01:40,559 –> 01:01:43,440
parliamentarian

949
01:01:43,440 –> 01:01:44,559
sherry

950
01:01:44,559 –> 01:01:46,400
yeah um i see the role of

951
01:01:46,400 –> 01:01:49,359
parliamentarian not as a formal

952
01:01:49,359 –> 01:01:51,680
physician for the ward but as a helping

953
01:01:51,680 –> 01:01:53,760
position for the board just like we have

954
01:01:53,760 –> 01:01:56,079
a time keeper

955
01:01:56,079 –> 01:01:58,400
one of the issues has been

956
01:01:58,400 –> 01:02:01,920
to keep the board focused on the topics

957
01:02:01,920 –> 01:02:03,760
on the agenda

958
01:02:03,760 –> 01:02:05,200
and we have gotten to the point

959
01:02:05,200 –> 01:02:08,240
sometimes where we’ve had a discussion

960
01:02:08,240 –> 01:02:11,359
um then we come back and we’re not sure

961
01:02:11,359 –> 01:02:14,400
um what we’ve actually discussed or

962
01:02:14,400 –> 01:02:17,200
whether or not there was conce excuse me

963
01:02:17,200 –> 01:02:20,559
whether or not there was consensus

964
01:02:20,559 –> 01:02:23,599
where we were in times

965
01:02:23,599 –> 01:02:26,960
in terms of the discussion

966
01:02:27,280 –> 01:02:29,039
and the

967
01:02:29,039 –> 01:02:32,480
ca used to have a parliamentarian

968
01:02:32,480 –> 01:02:34,960
so that the board would not get bogged

969
01:02:34,960 –> 01:02:37,680
down if an issue came up and the board

970
01:02:37,680 –> 01:02:39,599
already had a policy

971
01:02:39,599 –> 01:02:42,400
it was possible to say for example yes

972
01:02:42,400 –> 01:02:45,839
we have a policy on xyz by using the

973
01:02:45,839 –> 01:02:47,119
policy

974
01:02:47,119 –> 01:02:48,480
book

975
01:02:48,480 –> 01:02:50,799
so i see that as being more of a

976
01:02:50,799 –> 01:02:52,920
function where the the as a

977
01:02:52,920 –> 01:02:55,359
self-regulating group

978
01:02:55,359 –> 01:02:57,200
the board

979
01:02:57,200 –> 01:02:59,440
manages itself

980
01:02:59,440 –> 01:03:02,160
without getting into the minutes which

981
01:03:02,160 –> 01:03:04,319
are which are votes

982
01:03:04,319 –> 01:03:06,960
but keeping track of where we are in

983
01:03:06,960 –> 01:03:09,760
terms of discussion of topics

984
01:03:09,760 –> 01:03:12,240
um i think that would cut out a lot of

985
01:03:12,240 –> 01:03:13,680
repetition

986
01:03:13,680 –> 01:03:14,839
a lot of

987
01:03:14,839 –> 01:03:17,680
um you know people remember things

988
01:03:17,680 –> 01:03:20,880
differently and when we end a topic

989
01:03:20,880 –> 01:03:21,760
um

990
01:03:21,760 –> 01:03:23,200
on the agenda

991
01:03:23,200 –> 01:03:25,680
just to be able to do a summary

992
01:03:25,680 –> 01:03:28,400
in terms of this is what i heard

993
01:03:28,400 –> 01:03:30,400
and make a correction if correction

994
01:03:30,400 –> 01:03:32,960
needs to be made immediately and then

995
01:03:32,960 –> 01:03:36,960
send a summary in effect to the chair

996
01:03:36,960 –> 01:03:39,119
and then the board knows where we’re

997
01:03:39,119 –> 01:03:41,440
starting next that’s what i’m thinking

998
01:03:41,440 –> 01:03:42,839
of kevin

999
01:03:42,839 –> 01:03:45,599
um my understanding of parliamentarian

1000
01:03:45,599 –> 01:03:47,760
from my last other positions related to

1001
01:03:47,760 –> 01:03:50,240
boards was that’s a staff position

1002
01:03:50,240 –> 01:03:52,000
but perhaps we can do

1003
01:03:52,000 –> 01:03:54,079
you know a short subcommittee to discuss

1004
01:03:54,079 –> 01:03:56,400
this separately from our board meeting

1005
01:03:56,400 –> 01:03:58,160
to see if there’s any rules that we want

1006
01:03:58,160 –> 01:04:00,640
to change

1007
01:04:01,359 –> 01:04:02,559
andy

1008
01:04:02,559 –> 01:04:03,680
i mean

1009
01:04:03,680 –> 01:04:04,640
i gotta

1010
01:04:04,640 –> 01:04:07,200
agree with with janet and alan that

1011
01:04:07,200 –> 01:04:08,799
i just think it

1012
01:04:08,799 –> 01:04:11,039
trying to do everything that chari and

1013
01:04:11,039 –> 01:04:12,720
the parliamentarian has been described

1014
01:04:12,720 –> 01:04:14,640
as is going to be very difficult for a

1015
01:04:14,640 –> 01:04:17,359
board member um because you know you’ll

1016
01:04:17,359 –> 01:04:18,799
find you’ll find you know even when your

1017
01:04:18,799 –> 01:04:19,760
chair

1018
01:04:19,760 –> 01:04:22,000
trying to just even keep track

1019
01:04:22,000 –> 01:04:24,880
of what’s going on who’s speaking

1020
01:04:24,880 –> 01:04:27,039
makes it very very difficult and and i

1021
01:04:27,039 –> 01:04:29,359
have the same thing that experience that

1022
01:04:29,359 –> 01:04:30,880
kevin is is generally the

1023
01:04:30,880 –> 01:04:33,760
parliamentarian is someone else who can

1024
01:04:33,760 –> 01:04:35,359
kind of sit

1025
01:04:35,359 –> 01:04:38,880
and and and watch what we’re doing um

1026
01:04:38,880 –> 01:04:40,799
and and so i i do like the idea that

1027
01:04:40,799 –> 01:04:43,440
maybe we just need to

1028
01:04:43,440 –> 01:04:45,359
better specify

1029
01:04:45,359 –> 01:04:46,319
the

1030
01:04:46,319 –> 01:04:48,799
the position and what we want to do and

1031
01:04:48,799 –> 01:04:51,280
how we think it should be staffed but

1032
01:04:51,280 –> 01:04:53,680
i have concerns about it being a board

1033
01:04:53,680 –> 01:04:55,839
member

1034
01:04:56,400 –> 01:05:00,640
alan dick has his hand up oh dick

1035
01:05:00,640 –> 01:05:01,680
i

1036
01:05:01,680 –> 01:05:02,799
like the idea of having a

1037
01:05:02,799 –> 01:05:05,520
parliamentarian and

1038
01:05:05,520 –> 01:05:07,920
i would also suggest that

1039
01:05:07,920 –> 01:05:11,680
sherry having been a board chair at one

1040
01:05:11,680 –> 01:05:14,880
point and having that kind of experience

1041
01:05:14,880 –> 01:05:17,359
would be very helpful to us

1042
01:05:17,359 –> 01:05:21,200
and particularly very helpful to eric

1043
01:05:21,200 –> 01:05:24,480
since uh she has had that role before

1044
01:05:24,480 –> 01:05:26,720
and i think the parliamentarian

1045
01:05:26,720 –> 01:05:28,960
definitely has to be a member of the

1046
01:05:28,960 –> 01:05:30,720
board um

1047
01:05:30,720 –> 01:05:33,039
we need somebody we can

1048
01:05:33,039 –> 01:05:34,000
uh

1049
01:05:34,000 –> 01:05:37,839
we know and can rely on

1050
01:05:39,839 –> 01:05:41,520
yeah

1051
01:05:41,520 –> 01:05:44,079
to add to what kevin was saying um i

1052
01:05:44,079 –> 01:05:46,640
guess i would also see this role as

1053
01:05:46,640 –> 01:05:49,119
somebody that would had a subcommittee

1054
01:05:49,119 –> 01:05:51,280
to look at all of our procedures or

1055
01:05:51,280 –> 01:05:53,920
board procedures make sure they’re very

1056
01:05:53,920 –> 01:05:55,839
clear and that they’re accessible not

1057
01:05:55,839 –> 01:05:58,240
just to the board but to the public and

1058
01:05:58,240 –> 01:06:00,640
make any recommendations for changing

1059
01:06:00,640 –> 01:06:02,799
how we’re functioning

1060
01:06:02,799 –> 01:06:05,119
so i would see that as one of the roles

1061
01:06:05,119 –> 01:06:07,520
of somebody that it may if

1062
01:06:07,520 –> 01:06:10,799
serves in this position

1063
01:06:10,880 –> 01:06:12,559
i guess i would like to suggest that we

1064
01:06:12,559 –> 01:06:14,000
i don’t know if the proper word is table

1065
01:06:14,000 –> 01:06:15,280
but just

1066
01:06:15,280 –> 01:06:16,960
i think sort of adding this to our

1067
01:06:16,960 –> 01:06:18,880
agenda tonight and then deciding on it

1068
01:06:18,880 –> 01:06:21,119
feels to me like a

1069
01:06:21,119 –> 01:06:23,119
that would be rushing into it imovie

1070
01:06:23,119 –> 01:06:24,240
table

1071
01:06:24,240 –> 01:06:26,240
okay there’s a motion a table

1072
01:06:26,240 –> 01:06:28,720
um okay

1073
01:06:28,720 –> 01:06:30,839
okay all in favor of

1074
01:06:30,839 –> 01:06:34,559
tabling okay five one

1075
01:06:34,559 –> 01:06:37,839
one two three

1076
01:06:39,760 –> 01:06:42,319
one two three four kevin three

1077
01:06:42,319 –> 01:06:44,799
five six

1078
01:06:44,799 –> 01:06:48,559
oh i’ll oppose disabling

1079
01:06:48,640 –> 01:06:50,319
motion is tabled

1080
01:06:50,319 –> 01:06:55,039
did brian vote what ryan did vote yes

1081
01:06:56,960 –> 01:06:58,960
okay

1082
01:06:58,960 –> 01:07:00,400
excuse me i’m sorry

1083
01:07:00,400 –> 01:07:04,400
um can you tell me um who actually um

1084
01:07:04,400 –> 01:07:06,960
seconded the motion to have the role of

1085
01:07:06,960 –> 01:07:08,480
parliamentarium

1086
01:07:08,480 –> 01:07:11,280
i know jenny made the motion i didn’t

1087
01:07:11,280 –> 01:07:14,760
catch the second

1088
01:07:15,520 –> 01:07:17,520
i have a note of kevin fitzgerald in my

1089
01:07:17,520 –> 01:07:18,640
notes

1090
01:07:18,640 –> 01:07:22,160
i think it’s kevin yeah thank you

1091
01:07:24,480 –> 01:07:27,920
okay next next on the agenda is the

1092
01:07:27,920 –> 01:07:31,760
establishment of the audit committee um

1093
01:07:31,760 –> 01:07:34,400
jackie online

1094
01:07:36,880 –> 01:07:40,000
so you so i’d like to have a um oh

1095
01:07:40,000 –> 01:07:42,400
so could you hello could you provide a

1096
01:07:42,400 –> 01:07:44,160
few words on describing what the audit

1097
01:07:44,160 –> 01:07:46,000
committee is and what it does

1098
01:07:46,000 –> 01:07:47,440
please

1099
01:07:47,440 –> 01:07:50,319
i certainly can i’ll read from

1100
01:07:50,319 –> 01:07:52,319
the audit committee charter which is

1101
01:07:52,319 –> 01:07:53,280
also

1102
01:07:53,280 –> 01:07:55,280
on ca’s website that the purpose of the

1103
01:07:55,280 –> 01:07:56,960
audit committee is to assist the board

1104
01:07:56,960 –> 01:07:58,799
and direct of directors in fulfilling

1105
01:07:58,799 –> 01:08:01,119
its oversight responsibilities

1106
01:08:01,119 –> 01:08:03,359
for the financial reporting process the

1107
01:08:03,359 –> 01:08:05,440
systems of internal control the audit

1108
01:08:05,440 –> 01:08:08,079
process and the ethics program

1109
01:08:08,079 –> 01:08:10,400
the committee consists of five people

1110
01:08:10,400 –> 01:08:11,359
two

1111
01:08:11,359 –> 01:08:14,160
community members that fit the

1112
01:08:14,160 –> 01:08:16,399
designation of financial experts they

1113
01:08:16,399 –> 01:08:18,080
are both in place

1114
01:08:18,080 –> 01:08:19,600
and then three

1115
01:08:19,600 –> 01:08:22,560
members of the board

1116
01:08:22,560 –> 01:08:24,238
it’s strongly preferred that any board

1117
01:08:24,238 –> 01:08:26,399
member with financial expertise serve on

1118
01:08:26,399 –> 01:08:28,479
the chart on the audit committee

1119
01:08:28,479 –> 01:08:30,399
and read one other thing from the

1120
01:08:30,399 –> 01:08:31,679
charter that

1121
01:08:31,679 –> 01:08:34,000
at least one of the board

1122
01:08:34,000 –> 01:08:35,359
committee members should remain

1123
01:08:35,359 –> 01:08:37,520
consistent from year to year so

1124
01:08:37,520 –> 01:08:40,399
consistency is um

1125
01:08:40,399 –> 01:08:43,838
important on this committee

1126
01:08:45,040 –> 01:08:47,759
so as far as consistency uh currently we

1127
01:08:47,759 –> 01:08:50,080
um i have served on the

1128
01:08:50,080 –> 01:08:52,640
past previous year in addition dick and

1129
01:08:52,640 –> 01:08:54,560
andy also served on this past previous

1130
01:08:54,560 –> 01:08:55,359
year

1131
01:08:55,359 –> 01:08:56,158
um

1132
01:08:56,158 –> 01:08:58,238
given that do we have any volunteers to

1133
01:08:58,238 –> 01:09:01,358
be on the audit committee

1134
01:09:02,560 –> 01:09:06,759
okay kevin got andy

1135
01:09:07,198 –> 01:09:10,000
and uh i think bill santos

1136
01:09:10,000 –> 01:09:13,920
yeah he said he wanted to be on it

1137
01:09:14,479 –> 01:09:19,559
and uh i don’t know dick dick did you

1138
01:09:22,238 –> 01:09:24,479
i enjoyed being on it but i think uh

1139
01:09:24,479 –> 01:09:27,120
first of all andy uh because of the

1140
01:09:27,120 –> 01:09:31,120
current situation needs to stay on

1141
01:09:31,120 –> 01:09:34,520
and uh

1142
01:09:36,158 –> 01:09:38,479
and i’d be glad to serve if if you need

1143
01:09:38,479 –> 01:09:40,640
another member but uh

1144
01:09:40,640 –> 01:09:44,640
i’ll leave that up to the board

1145
01:09:45,439 –> 01:09:46,839
so are you

1146
01:09:46,839 –> 01:09:50,238
volunteering yeah volunteer

1147
01:09:50,238 –> 01:09:51,520
okay

1148
01:09:51,520 –> 01:09:53,279
so right right now there’s four people

1149
01:09:53,279 –> 01:09:55,120
that uh volunteered for the audit

1150
01:09:55,120 –> 01:09:56,320
committee

1151
01:09:56,320 –> 01:09:58,960
well then i’ll i’m gonna unvoluntar okay

1152
01:09:58,960 –> 01:10:00,800
so there’s three people that currently

1153
01:10:00,800 –> 01:10:02,960
volunteered for the audit committee

1154
01:10:02,960 –> 01:10:07,360
that would be kevin andy and bill santos

1155
01:10:07,520 –> 01:10:09,280
assuming there no objections

1156
01:10:09,280 –> 01:10:10,480
congratulations you’re now members of

1157
01:10:10,480 –> 01:10:13,199
the audit committee

1158
01:10:14,080 –> 01:10:16,560
ex-committee is the risk management

1159
01:10:16,560 –> 01:10:18,640
committee um susan could you give a

1160
01:10:18,640 –> 01:10:19,679
description of the risk management

1161
01:10:19,679 –> 01:10:21,280
committee

1162
01:10:21,280 –> 01:10:24,320
sure so the risk management committee

1163
01:10:24,320 –> 01:10:26,480
is responsible for administering ca’s

1164
01:10:26,480 –> 01:10:29,520
general liability self-insurance program

1165
01:10:29,520 –> 01:10:32,480
that includes a 6.6 million dollar

1166
01:10:32,480 –> 01:10:34,640
trust fund and

1167
01:10:34,640 –> 01:10:37,360
uh it is the um

1168
01:10:37,360 –> 01:10:40,000
first million dollars of exposure for

1169
01:10:40,000 –> 01:10:42,840
general liability incidents which are

1170
01:10:42,840 –> 01:10:47,280
uh incidents related to personal injury

1171
01:10:47,280 –> 01:10:49,920
and property damage

1172
01:10:49,920 –> 01:10:50,719
that

1173
01:10:50,719 –> 01:10:51,840
occur

1174
01:10:51,840 –> 01:10:54,800
to people who are not employees

1175
01:10:54,800 –> 01:10:57,280
so it’s a response the committee is made

1176
01:10:57,280 –> 01:10:58,480
up of

1177
01:10:58,480 –> 01:11:02,000
uh myself uh an ex officio chair the

1178
01:11:02,000 –> 01:11:03,520
president ceo

1179
01:11:03,520 –> 01:11:06,080
an an external uh industry expert a

1180
01:11:06,080 –> 01:11:09,440
resident um and the uh general counsel

1181
01:11:09,440 –> 01:11:11,679
services secretary then there are three

1182
01:11:11,679 –> 01:11:13,040
board members

1183
01:11:13,040 –> 01:11:15,199
that the board selects the committee

1184
01:11:15,199 –> 01:11:16,719
handles uh

1185
01:11:16,719 –> 01:11:19,920
extremely sensitive personal information

1186
01:11:19,920 –> 01:11:22,000
and

1187
01:11:22,000 –> 01:11:23,920
and also is in

1188
01:11:23,920 –> 01:11:25,840
conducting itself in accordance with

1189
01:11:25,840 –> 01:11:28,239
agreements with third parties

1190
01:11:28,239 –> 01:11:29,440
thank you

1191
01:11:29,440 –> 01:11:31,360
so do we have any volunteers to join the

1192
01:11:31,360 –> 01:11:34,080
risk committee

1193
01:11:34,080 –> 01:11:36,480
janet

1194
01:11:38,320 –> 01:11:43,280
allen and brian was interested now

1195
01:11:44,320 –> 01:11:45,360
are you interested in the audit

1196
01:11:45,360 –> 01:11:49,040
committee or the uh first committee

1197
01:11:51,600 –> 01:11:53,360
i’m not sure if i’m going to be a good

1198
01:11:53,360 –> 01:11:55,280
fit for that committee not

1199
01:11:55,280 –> 01:11:56,159
my

1200
01:11:56,159 –> 01:11:58,960
from the description you’ve described

1201
01:11:58,960 –> 01:12:01,679
so i’m not putting my name forward

1202
01:12:01,679 –> 01:12:02,800
okay

1203
01:12:02,800 –> 01:12:05,440
how about that

1204
01:12:05,679 –> 01:12:07,760
how about dick as a third member dick

1205
01:12:07,760 –> 01:12:08,640
would you be interested in joining the

1206
01:12:08,640 –> 01:12:10,960
risk committee

1207
01:12:10,960 –> 01:12:14,640
do you need me i’ll i’ll jump in

1208
01:12:14,640 –> 01:12:16,800
this isn’t i i need to i would like to

1209
01:12:16,800 –> 01:12:18,719
make another uh just statement about

1210
01:12:18,719 –> 01:12:21,920
this so i would ask that the ca board

1211
01:12:21,920 –> 01:12:24,320
not select alan klein to be a member of

1212
01:12:24,320 –> 01:12:26,480
the risk management committee

1213
01:12:26,480 –> 01:12:28,560
i make the request in accordance with my

1214
01:12:28,560 –> 01:12:31,360
duties as a long-time officer for ca and

1215
01:12:31,360 –> 01:12:32,880
the senior vice president and as the

1216
01:12:32,880 –> 01:12:33,760
chair

1217
01:12:33,760 –> 01:12:36,159
i did note that there is access to

1218
01:12:36,159 –> 01:12:38,000
extremely sensitive information for

1219
01:12:38,000 –> 01:12:39,440
individuals

1220
01:12:39,440 –> 01:12:41,199
including community members and ca

1221
01:12:41,199 –> 01:12:42,640
employees

1222
01:12:42,640 –> 01:12:44,480
individuals provide

1223
01:12:44,480 –> 01:12:46,560
pii personally

1224
01:12:46,560 –> 01:12:48,480
identifiable information and participate

1225
01:12:48,480 –> 01:12:51,040
in investigations etc and the normative

1226
01:12:51,040 –> 01:12:53,120
expectation is that their information

1227
01:12:53,120 –> 01:12:54,480
would be used and maintained in

1228
01:12:54,480 –> 01:12:57,600
accordance with ca’s ethics policies

1229
01:12:57,600 –> 01:13:00,239
also the administration of the trust

1230
01:13:00,239 –> 01:13:02,800
is with a third-party trusted

1231
01:13:02,800 –> 01:13:05,280
trustee and again their expectation

1232
01:13:05,280 –> 01:13:07,040
would be uh

1233
01:13:07,040 –> 01:13:08,800
that all parties conduct themselves in

1234
01:13:08,800 –> 01:13:11,280
accordance with the policies and so

1235
01:13:11,280 –> 01:13:13,199
uh in my uh

1236
01:13:13,199 –> 01:13:15,040
alignment uh with alignment with my

1237
01:13:15,040 –> 01:13:17,120
duties is a long time

1238
01:13:17,120 –> 01:13:19,440
ca officer and senior leader and as

1239
01:13:19,440 –> 01:13:21,920
chair of the risk management committee

1240
01:13:21,920 –> 01:13:24,320
i have to recommend that mr klein not

1241
01:13:24,320 –> 01:13:26,640
serve as a member of that committee um

1242
01:13:26,640 –> 01:13:28,880
that he disqualified himself

1243
01:13:28,880 –> 01:13:30,320
from being entrusted with such a

1244
01:13:30,320 –> 01:13:31,600
position

1245
01:13:31,600 –> 01:13:34,000
by the the non-transparent and

1246
01:13:34,000 –> 01:13:36,480
unauthorized and hidden refusal to agree

1247
01:13:36,480 –> 01:13:37,280
to

1248
01:13:37,280 –> 01:13:39,040
conduct himself in accordance with those

1249
01:13:39,040 –> 01:13:41,280
policies for at least four years

1250
01:13:41,280 –> 01:13:45,440
and other previous ethics violations

1251
01:13:46,560 –> 01:13:50,640
you want to comment um i’ll wait

1252
01:13:51,199 –> 01:13:53,600
i never

1253
01:13:54,159 –> 01:13:56,320
refused to conduct myself in accordance

1254
01:13:56,320 –> 01:13:57,920
with those policies and i never didn’t

1255
01:13:57,920 –> 01:13:59,679
conduct myself in accordance with those

1256
01:13:59,679 –> 01:14:02,800
policies i refused to sign

1257
01:14:02,800 –> 01:14:05,040
a statement saying that i would

1258
01:14:05,040 –> 01:14:07,840
those are two different things

1259
01:14:07,840 –> 01:14:11,280
i’m a little surprised at this

1260
01:14:11,760 –> 01:14:14,719
the case came before this board

1261
01:14:14,719 –> 01:14:16,320
there was a

1262
01:14:16,320 –> 01:14:19,280
if you will with a small t trial

1263
01:14:19,280 –> 01:14:21,280
there was a consequence that was meted

1264
01:14:21,280 –> 01:14:22,960
out by this board

1265
01:14:22,960 –> 01:14:27,320
to add further to that consequence

1266
01:14:35,840 –> 01:14:37,840
yes i can vouch for

1267
01:14:37,840 –> 01:14:39,679
alan he is probably one of the most

1268
01:14:39,679 –> 01:14:42,239
honorable people i know one of the most

1269
01:14:42,239 –> 01:14:44,960
ethical and moral people i know on the

1270
01:14:44,960 –> 01:14:46,239
board

1271
01:14:46,239 –> 01:14:48,800
he uh

1272
01:14:48,800 –> 01:14:52,080
his supposed violation was just taken

1273
01:14:52,080 –> 01:14:54,400
totally out of proportion

1274
01:14:54,400 –> 01:14:58,239
and uh i i just can’t accept that

1275
01:14:58,239 –> 01:15:00,800
comment about him he is uh

1276
01:15:00,800 –> 01:15:03,280
he’s he’s totally trustworthy totally

1277
01:15:03,280 –> 01:15:04,560
trustworthy

1278
01:15:04,560 –> 01:15:05,760
and uh

1279
01:15:05,760 –> 01:15:07,120
i i

1280
01:15:07,120 –> 01:15:08,960
i’m just appalled the way he’s been

1281
01:15:08,960 –> 01:15:11,600
treated not only while he was on the

1282
01:15:11,600 –> 01:15:13,600
board but after he was on the board and

1283
01:15:13,600 –> 01:15:15,280
while he was running

1284
01:15:15,280 –> 01:15:18,320
for election to the board uh i i seen

1285
01:15:18,320 –> 01:15:21,440
absolutely no bar for him to be

1286
01:15:21,440 –> 01:15:23,280
not accepted

1287
01:15:23,280 –> 01:15:25,040
on the risk committee

1288
01:15:25,040 –> 01:15:27,360
brian

1289
01:15:30,320 –> 01:15:31,920
yes i want to

1290
01:15:31,920 –> 01:15:34,000
support just what dick said i’ve known

1291
01:15:34,000 –> 01:15:36,239
adam for many many years the idea that

1292
01:15:36,239 –> 01:15:38,000
he’s unethical he’s absolutely

1293
01:15:38,000 –> 01:15:40,560
ridiculous and i think he’d be a good

1294
01:15:40,560 –> 01:15:42,960
person to be on that committee so i

1295
01:15:42,960 –> 01:15:45,040
think i think we should move on from

1296
01:15:45,040 –> 01:15:47,679
that as alan said he had his so-called

1297
01:15:47,679 –> 01:15:50,880
punishment and a lot more afterwards so

1298
01:15:50,880 –> 01:15:52,800
i strongly support

1299
01:15:52,800 –> 01:15:56,239
that allen should be on this committee

1300
01:15:56,239 –> 01:15:58,640
and i’d also like to welcome bill santos

1301
01:15:58,640 –> 01:16:00,159
into the meeting

1302
01:16:00,159 –> 01:16:02,719
hi everybody hey hi bill

1303
01:16:02,719 –> 01:16:03,920
hi bill

1304
01:16:03,920 –> 01:16:06,159
and you’ve been on appointed to the

1305
01:16:06,159 –> 01:16:07,520
audit committee

1306
01:16:07,520 –> 01:16:10,960
oh great great news thank you

1307
01:16:11,920 –> 01:16:14,800
jenny do you have any uh uh thoughts

1308
01:16:14,800 –> 01:16:16,800
this is turning into a pretty difficult

1309
01:16:16,800 –> 01:16:18,840
meeting um

1310
01:16:18,840 –> 01:16:22,400
we’re we’re assuming somebody’s going to

1311
01:16:22,400 –> 01:16:24,320
do something and they

1312
01:16:24,320 –> 01:16:26,080
haven’t done anything

1313
01:16:26,080 –> 01:16:28,400
in the at the risk committee uh and

1314
01:16:28,400 –> 01:16:30,960
we’re sort of saying they’re guilty

1315
01:16:30,960 –> 01:16:33,440
before they even get on it

1316
01:16:33,440 –> 01:16:36,719
is a very difficult situation and uh i’m

1317
01:16:36,719 –> 01:16:38,800
just worried about

1318
01:16:38,800 –> 01:16:41,920
whether we’re condemning somebody uh i i

1319
01:16:41,920 –> 01:16:44,640
just find it i just can’t go along with

1320
01:16:44,640 –> 01:16:46,800
that

1321
01:16:47,120 –> 01:16:49,040
and if i could just add that ms crabby

1322
01:16:49,040 –> 01:16:50,640
knows that i served

1323
01:16:50,640 –> 01:16:52,880
two years of honorable service on the

1324
01:16:52,880 –> 01:16:56,000
risk management committee under her

1325
01:16:56,000 –> 01:16:58,080
chairship

1326
01:16:58,080 –> 01:16:59,920
sir

1327
01:16:59,920 –> 01:17:03,120
susan so i can only go with what i have

1328
01:17:03,120 –> 01:17:07,199
exp uh observed and experienced and i

1329
01:17:07,199 –> 01:17:10,560
i uh see the

1330
01:17:10,880 –> 01:17:13,600
the matter with the with the policies as

1331
01:17:13,600 –> 01:17:16,000
as serious and just cast and question

1332
01:17:16,000 –> 01:17:17,580
whether or not

1333
01:17:17,580 –> 01:17:19,360
[Music]

1334
01:17:19,360 –> 01:17:21,920
i have no i now feel i have no idea

1335
01:17:21,920 –> 01:17:24,000
whether that behavior was in accordance

1336
01:17:24,000 –> 01:17:25,920
with those policies or not

1337
01:17:25,920 –> 01:17:28,000
and i have no confidence

1338
01:17:28,000 –> 01:17:30,719
whether it would continue to be

1339
01:17:30,719 –> 01:17:33,840
and i feel that i it’s my responsibility

1340
01:17:33,840 –> 01:17:36,000
to speak up on behalf of

1341
01:17:36,000 –> 01:17:38,800
of the individuals who uh would be

1342
01:17:38,800 –> 01:17:40,400
trusting us with

1343
01:17:40,400 –> 01:17:43,280
these circumstances and with these other

1344
01:17:43,280 –> 01:17:45,840
organizations that expect

1345
01:17:45,840 –> 01:17:47,120
a certain

1346
01:17:47,120 –> 01:17:50,080
code of behavior and i just don’t know

1347
01:17:50,080 –> 01:17:52,480
i feel that that’s cast into question

1348
01:17:52,480 –> 01:17:54,880
uh whether that would occur or not and i

1349
01:17:54,880 –> 01:17:56,800
would like to make it clear that this is

1350
01:17:56,800 –> 01:17:59,199
uh

1351
01:17:59,199 –> 01:18:03,199
brings me zero uh joy and is quite

1352
01:18:03,199 –> 01:18:06,159
difficult and that uh this was my

1353
01:18:06,159 –> 01:18:07,760
independent

1354
01:18:07,760 –> 01:18:08,640
uh

1355
01:18:08,640 –> 01:18:11,520
initiative that i uh you know i’ve been

1356
01:18:11,520 –> 01:18:14,159
uh this is 24 years with columbia

1357
01:18:14,159 –> 01:18:17,199
association most of those as an officer

1358
01:18:17,199 –> 01:18:18,400
and i

1359
01:18:18,400 –> 01:18:20,400
felt that this was important to make to

1360
01:18:20,400 –> 01:18:22,159
make clear

1361
01:18:22,159 –> 01:18:24,320
thank you so i i would like to note that

1362
01:18:24,320 –> 01:18:25,840
we’ve got three positions and three

1363
01:18:25,840 –> 01:18:27,600
volunteers

1364
01:18:27,600 –> 01:18:28,719
so

1365
01:18:28,719 –> 01:18:30,239
assuming there’s no objection you’re

1366
01:18:30,239 –> 01:18:33,360
just ignoring it

1367
01:18:33,440 –> 01:18:37,120
is there are there any other volunteers

1368
01:18:37,120 –> 01:18:39,360
are there any not really the point is it

1369
01:18:39,360 –> 01:18:42,000
so as chair of the board you need to

1370
01:18:42,000 –> 01:18:44,320
represent the organization and you need

1371
01:18:44,320 –> 01:18:46,320
to look out for the organization if the

1372
01:18:46,320 –> 01:18:48,159
senior vice president is telling you

1373
01:18:48,159 –> 01:18:50,560
that there is a concern based on past

1374
01:18:50,560 –> 01:18:52,400
behavior for someone being on the risk

1375
01:18:52,400 –> 01:18:54,320
management committee it seems to me you

1376
01:18:54,320 –> 01:18:56,800
should at least consider that

1377
01:18:56,800 –> 01:18:58,560
julie noted

1378
01:18:58,560 –> 01:19:00,800
so i will say this again we have three

1379
01:19:00,800 –> 01:19:03,520
volunteers in three positions

1380
01:19:03,520 –> 01:19:06,159
we have an objection so

1381
01:19:06,159 –> 01:19:07,600
is there a motion

1382
01:19:07,600 –> 01:19:09,840
to to appoint janet allen and dick to

1383
01:19:09,840 –> 01:19:12,159
the risk committee so moved is there a

1384
01:19:12,159 –> 01:19:14,560
second

1385
01:19:14,560 –> 01:19:16,080
actually

1386
01:19:16,080 –> 01:19:18,320
second chair’s decision

1387
01:19:18,320 –> 01:19:19,760
i mean because i’m looking at our

1388
01:19:19,760 –> 01:19:21,440
policies as the chair points board

1389
01:19:21,440 –> 01:19:22,719
members to the audit committee and the

1390
01:19:22,719 –> 01:19:24,960
risk management committee board members

1391
01:19:24,960 –> 01:19:26,640
may request assignment to either these

1392
01:19:26,640 –> 01:19:28,560
committees but the chair makes the final

1393
01:19:28,560 –> 01:19:31,040
decision

1394
01:19:32,239 –> 01:19:35,920
so it’s your decision eric

1395
01:19:36,320 –> 01:19:37,520
and

1396
01:19:37,520 –> 01:19:39,040
that’s certainly our policy and that

1397
01:19:39,040 –> 01:19:41,040
would be the ultimate decision right one

1398
01:19:41,040 –> 01:19:44,239
way to look at what eric’s asking for is

1399
01:19:44,239 –> 01:19:46,080
as janet has pointed out he’s got a

1400
01:19:46,080 –> 01:19:47,440
senior vice president who’s made a

1401
01:19:47,440 –> 01:19:49,360
recommendation

1402
01:19:49,360 –> 01:19:51,280
he’s got a couple of board members at

1403
01:19:51,280 –> 01:19:53,679
least who’ve uh

1404
01:19:53,679 –> 01:19:55,760
given a different opinion

1405
01:19:55,760 –> 01:19:57,040
so

1406
01:19:57,040 –> 01:19:58,719
maybe just sort of wants a sense of the

1407
01:19:58,719 –> 01:20:00,239
board to know

1408
01:20:00,239 –> 01:20:03,880
to help guide him

1409
01:20:04,719 –> 01:20:06,639
all in favor

1410
01:20:06,639 –> 01:20:07,679
mm-hmm

1411
01:20:07,679 –> 01:20:09,520
yeah

1412
01:20:09,520 –> 01:20:11,840
yes

1413
01:20:12,480 –> 01:20:16,840
i’ll do a roll call on favorite dick

1414
01:20:27,520 –> 01:20:29,120
dick you’re on mute

1415
01:20:29,120 –> 01:20:30,719
dick you’re on mute

1416
01:20:30,719 –> 01:20:32,800
okay okay

1417
01:20:32,800 –> 01:20:35,040
this is a new system here i’ve just i

1418
01:20:35,040 –> 01:20:36,800
finally learned the old system and now

1419
01:20:36,800 –> 01:20:39,600
we got a new one anyway uh yes i am in

1420
01:20:39,600 –> 01:20:41,120
favor of alan being on the risk

1421
01:20:41,120 –> 01:20:42,880
community well i think it’s all three

1422
01:20:42,880 –> 01:20:46,880
alan jones and alan allen

1423
01:20:47,040 –> 01:20:49,199
yes brian

1424
01:20:49,199 –> 01:20:51,760
all three

1425
01:20:52,480 –> 01:20:53,840
janet

1426
01:20:53,840 –> 01:20:56,400
i’m not in favor of alan being on

1427
01:20:56,400 –> 01:21:01,440
kevin uh all in favor the three

1428
01:21:01,440 –> 01:21:03,679
alan yes

1429
01:21:03,679 –> 01:21:05,920
bill

1430
01:21:06,080 –> 01:21:08,239
um i just got here i’m gonna abstain

1431
01:21:08,239 –> 01:21:09,760
from this one i don’t have a problem

1432
01:21:09,760 –> 01:21:11,840
with alan per se but i i just got into

1433
01:21:11,840 –> 01:21:13,280
this conversation i haven’t heard any of

1434
01:21:13,280 –> 01:21:15,280
this i’m going to abstain from this one

1435
01:21:15,280 –> 01:21:17,120
andy

1436
01:21:17,120 –> 01:21:18,880
no

1437
01:21:18,880 –> 01:21:19,760
ginny

1438
01:21:19,760 –> 01:21:20,719
yes

1439
01:21:20,719 –> 01:21:22,080
cherry

1440
01:21:22,080 –> 01:21:24,560
going to abstain

1441
01:21:24,560 –> 01:21:27,600
yeah so we’ve got one two three four

1442
01:21:27,600 –> 01:21:29,840
five i vote yes

1443
01:21:29,840 –> 01:21:32,719
i got six six four

1444
01:21:32,719 –> 01:21:33,760
uh

1445
01:21:33,760 –> 01:21:36,639
one two no’s and two abstentions motion

1446
01:21:36,639 –> 01:21:38,080
passes

1447
01:21:38,080 –> 01:21:38,880
so

1448
01:21:38,880 –> 01:21:41,360
janet helen and dick are on the uh risk

1449
01:21:41,360 –> 01:21:43,840
committee

1450
01:21:50,239 –> 01:21:51,840
last

1451
01:21:51,840 –> 01:21:54,400
last topic is iat likey could you give

1452
01:21:54,400 –> 01:21:58,239
an introduction to the iet

1453
01:22:01,199 –> 01:22:03,920
iit is the inner arbor trust it is a

1454
01:22:03,920 –> 01:22:05,520
501c3

1455
01:22:05,520 –> 01:22:06,639
in

1456
01:22:06,639 –> 01:22:10,679
columbia that

1457
01:22:11,600 –> 01:22:14,480
that does the uh programming

1458
01:22:14,480 –> 01:22:16,000
um

1459
01:22:16,000 –> 01:22:18,159
in symphony woods

1460
01:22:18,159 –> 01:22:20,400
and

1461
01:22:20,400 –> 01:22:25,520
also is in a transition between ca and

1462
01:22:25,520 –> 01:22:27,679
inner rubber trust based on an easement

1463
01:22:27,679 –> 01:22:30,880
agreement with taking over maintenance

1464
01:22:30,880 –> 01:22:34,960
and doing some capital investment work

1465
01:22:34,960 –> 01:22:38,000
that would be my summary

1466
01:22:38,000 –> 01:22:40,320
um eric before we move

1467
01:22:40,320 –> 01:22:41,040
to

1468
01:22:41,040 –> 01:22:42,639
um iat which is the next time on an

1469
01:22:42,639 –> 01:22:46,159
agenda can we finish the committees

1470
01:22:46,159 –> 01:22:48,400
um because what we still have is uh the

1471
01:22:48,400 –> 01:22:50,960
liaisons

1472
01:22:50,960 –> 01:22:52,639
yeah i was going to do the liaisons

1473
01:22:52,639 –> 01:22:54,320
after iit this is going to do those

1474
01:22:54,320 –> 01:22:56,159
after yeah this is the order

1475
01:22:56,159 –> 01:22:58,560
that showed up in my packet okay sorry

1476
01:22:58,560 –> 01:22:59,840
about that though

1477
01:22:59,840 –> 01:23:02,000
no that makes sense that a strong bigger

1478
01:23:02,000 –> 01:23:04,239
committee yeah this is what showed up in

1479
01:23:04,239 –> 01:23:05,679
the order i got excuse me isn’t it

1480
01:23:05,679 –> 01:23:08,719
what’s on the agenda

1481
01:23:09,760 –> 01:23:11,360
so i’m just

1482
01:23:11,360 –> 01:23:14,239
following the uh yeah we’re going off

1483
01:23:14,239 –> 01:23:17,440
i’ve been just following the packet

1484
01:23:18,800 –> 01:23:22,800
but if i’m out of order i will defer

1485
01:23:22,800 –> 01:23:24,719
well at the bottom of the same page that

1486
01:23:24,719 –> 01:23:26,800
has the appointments to the appointments

1487
01:23:26,800 –> 01:23:30,480
are the advisory committees

1488
01:23:30,719 –> 01:23:32,719
oh i see yeah because we usually try to

1489
01:23:32,719 –> 01:23:35,679
do is is get the boc’s

1490
01:23:35,679 –> 01:23:37,600
schedule so we know who you know who can

1491
01:23:37,600 –> 01:23:38,800
be because some of us might have

1492
01:23:38,800 –> 01:23:41,520
conflicts um and also try to get the

1493
01:23:41,520 –> 01:23:43,280
liaisons to the

1494
01:23:43,280 –> 01:23:44,400
um

1495
01:23:44,400 –> 01:23:45,840
the various committees so we get that

1496
01:23:45,840 –> 01:23:49,080
out of them

1497
01:23:52,400 –> 01:23:54,080
pretty much all of us get involved in

1498
01:23:54,080 –> 01:23:55,920
the advisory committee

1499
01:23:55,920 –> 01:23:56,880
whereas

1500
01:23:56,880 –> 01:23:58,400
we’ve got some people who are involved

1501
01:23:58,400 –> 01:23:59,840
already in

1502
01:23:59,840 –> 01:24:02,560
in the um

1503
01:24:14,159 –> 01:24:16,800
allocate board members to the boc in the

1504
01:24:16,800 –> 01:24:18,880
pa last year we just allocated them to

1505
01:24:18,880 –> 01:24:20,239
meetings and then if they couldn’t make

1506
01:24:20,239 –> 01:24:21,520
that one they could let you know and

1507
01:24:21,520 –> 01:24:22,719
then you could swap them out for

1508
01:24:22,719 –> 01:24:24,639
somebody else so that piece of it you

1509
01:24:24,639 –> 01:24:27,280
could just move on for next you know you

1510
01:24:27,280 –> 01:24:30,000
could just assign people not right now

1511
01:24:30,000 –> 01:24:32,560
send it later but then do the other

1512
01:24:32,560 –> 01:24:33,920
committees yeah that’s that’s what i was

1513
01:24:33,920 –> 01:24:35,199
actually planning on doing i was just

1514
01:24:35,199 –> 01:24:36,480
doing that later i was actually planning

1515
01:24:36,480 –> 01:24:39,040
doing iot before uh the advisory

1516
01:24:39,040 –> 01:24:41,120
committees but if yeah could i could i

1517
01:24:41,120 –> 01:24:43,280
suggest that it might be a good idea to

1518
01:24:43,280 –> 01:24:45,440
go with the iat because that’s a time

1519
01:24:45,440 –> 01:24:48,480
consuming and if two people get on that

1520
01:24:48,480 –> 01:24:50,719
they may not want to then be involved in

1521
01:24:50,719 –> 01:24:52,560
an advisory committee since we’re down

1522
01:24:52,560 –> 01:24:53,280
to

1523
01:24:53,280 –> 01:24:55,760
i think only seven of them anyway so if

1524
01:24:55,760 –> 01:24:57,600
they’re on the audit or the risk

1525
01:24:57,600 –> 01:24:59,920
committee or the iat

1526
01:24:59,920 –> 01:25:02,560
they may say whoa that’s a lot

1527
01:25:02,560 –> 01:25:05,280
plus the boc plus their other whatever

1528
01:25:05,280 –> 01:25:07,360
other subcommittees it might be on so it

1529
01:25:07,360 –> 01:25:10,480
does seem logical to go to iit next and

1530
01:25:10,480 –> 01:25:12,000
give those people a chance and they may

1531
01:25:12,000 –> 01:25:14,080
not deserve irrelevant going forward is

1532
01:25:14,080 –> 01:25:15,920
that well i i’m sorry i’m just

1533
01:25:15,920 –> 01:25:17,520
explaining how i see it and then they

1534
01:25:17,520 –> 01:25:18,639
can decide whether they want to

1535
01:25:18,639 –> 01:25:20,560
volunteer for a committee or they’re

1536
01:25:20,560 –> 01:25:23,440
saying whoa my plate is full already

1537
01:25:23,440 –> 01:25:27,040
it’s my two cents

1538
01:25:27,040 –> 01:25:28,400
are there

1539
01:25:28,400 –> 01:25:29,920
any objections with deviating from the

1540
01:25:29,920 –> 01:25:34,719
agenda to do iat now no no okay thanks

1541
01:25:34,719 –> 01:25:37,040
given and i appreciate that because like

1542
01:25:37,040 –> 01:25:38,080
he already gave a pretty good

1543
01:25:38,080 –> 01:25:39,760
introduction to iot

1544
01:25:39,760 –> 01:25:41,760
so given that do we have any volunteers

1545
01:25:41,760 –> 01:25:43,280
to join the iat

1546
01:25:43,280 –> 01:25:44,480
kevin

1547
01:25:44,480 –> 01:25:46,960
and dick

1548
01:25:52,400 –> 01:25:55,040
okay um there are two members and two

1549
01:25:55,040 –> 01:25:56,639
volunteers

1550
01:25:56,639 –> 01:25:58,159
and seeing no other volunteers

1551
01:25:58,159 –> 01:26:00,000
congratulations kevin and dick you are

1552
01:26:00,000 –> 01:26:02,239
provides to the iat

1553
01:26:02,239 –> 01:26:03,360
now

1554
01:26:03,360 –> 01:26:06,159
um and that’s a workload

1555
01:26:06,159 –> 01:26:07,679
yes

1556
01:26:07,679 –> 01:26:08,800
so now

1557
01:26:08,800 –> 01:26:11,440
board operations committee um there are

1558
01:26:11,440 –> 01:26:13,760
right now four board operations uh

1559
01:26:13,760 –> 01:26:16,480
committee dates they are um monday may

1560
01:26:16,480 –> 01:26:17,520
23rd

1561
01:26:17,520 –> 01:26:19,440
monday august 29th

1562
01:26:19,440 –> 01:26:22,159
monday november 28th and monday february

1563
01:26:22,159 –> 01:26:25,120
27th of 2023

1564
01:26:25,120 –> 01:26:28,000
what i propose doing is i’ll send out a

1565
01:26:28,000 –> 01:26:30,719
draft schedule and the intention here is

1566
01:26:30,719 –> 01:26:32,400
that every

1567
01:26:32,400 –> 01:26:34,880
member is on gets to be on the one of

1568
01:26:34,880 –> 01:26:37,120
these committees and if there are any

1569
01:26:37,120 –> 01:26:38,960
conflicts we’ll we’ll resolve them um

1570
01:26:38,960 –> 01:26:40,480
but i don’t think we want to play around

1571
01:26:40,480 –> 01:26:42,800
with the who’s got a conflict in uh

1572
01:26:42,800 –> 01:26:45,760
november right right the second so

1573
01:26:45,760 –> 01:26:48,000
i will send out that email

1574
01:26:48,000 –> 01:26:49,679
either tonight or tomorrow and please

1575
01:26:49,679 –> 01:26:51,440
respond to it

1576
01:26:51,440 –> 01:26:52,639
uh

1577
01:26:52,639 –> 01:26:53,679
last

1578
01:26:53,679 –> 01:26:55,600
uh next thing on the agenda is board

1579
01:26:55,600 –> 01:26:57,120
member liaisons

1580
01:26:57,120 –> 01:27:00,000
um in the past we had uh

1581
01:27:00,000 –> 01:27:02,800
i think we had what

1582
01:27:03,040 –> 01:27:06,159
11 liaisons but based on

1583
01:27:06,159 –> 01:27:08,560
the last meeting we now are down to

1584
01:27:08,560 –> 01:27:09,840
seven liaisons

1585
01:27:09,840 –> 01:27:11,760
[Music]

1586
01:27:11,760 –> 01:27:13,679
and these include the climate change

1587
01:27:13,679 –> 01:27:15,520
committee the columbia arts center

1588
01:27:15,520 –> 01:27:16,560
committee

1589
01:27:16,560 –> 01:27:18,159
the multicultural committee the

1590
01:27:18,159 –> 01:27:19,760
watershed committee

1591
01:27:19,760 –> 01:27:21,679
um the millennial advisory committee the

1592
01:27:21,679 –> 01:27:23,840
senior advisory committee and the teen

1593
01:27:23,840 –> 01:27:26,320
and middle school advisory committee

1594
01:27:26,320 –> 01:27:28,800
you have a question ellen yeah i don’t

1595
01:27:28,800 –> 01:27:30,560
want to relitigate it but i wasn’t here

1596
01:27:30,560 –> 01:27:32,800
and i understand that

1597
01:27:32,800 –> 01:27:34,560
we went from 11 to seven i’d love to

1598
01:27:34,560 –> 01:27:36,000
hear

1599
01:27:36,000 –> 01:27:39,600
it seems aquatics and sports and fitness

1600
01:27:39,600 –> 01:27:42,560
are such a huge part of what we do

1601
01:27:42,560 –> 01:27:45,800
i understand

1602
01:27:46,159 –> 01:27:47,840
but that’s been resolved at previous

1603
01:27:47,840 –> 01:27:49,760
meetings

1604
01:27:49,760 –> 01:27:52,080
25 words or less on why that’s 25 words

1605
01:27:52,080 –> 01:27:54,400
so they do still exist but they’re going

1606
01:27:54,400 –> 01:27:56,639
to be staff driven and board members who

1607
01:27:56,639 –> 01:27:58,320
would like to participate are more than

1608
01:27:58,320 –> 01:28:00,639
welcome to but we weren’t assigning so

1609
01:28:00,639 –> 01:28:02,480
the meetings will be finished their

1610
01:28:02,480 –> 01:28:04,159
minutes will be published

1611
01:28:04,159 –> 01:28:05,040
um

1612
01:28:05,040 –> 01:28:07,120
but they will be primarily staff driven

1613
01:28:07,120 –> 01:28:09,040
because they are aquatic you know

1614
01:28:09,040 –> 01:28:10,719
because they’re so integrated with what

1615
01:28:10,719 –> 01:28:12,639
columbia association with the operations

1616
01:28:12,639 –> 01:28:15,199
okay thank you you’re welcome

1617
01:28:15,199 –> 01:28:18,000
golf and tennis were the other two

1618
01:28:18,000 –> 01:28:19,280
okay so

1619
01:28:19,280 –> 01:28:21,040
given that uh

1620
01:28:21,040 –> 01:28:23,600
you want volunteers i went to volunteer

1621
01:28:23,600 –> 01:28:26,560
volunteers for the

1622
01:28:27,440 –> 01:28:29,440
volunteers for committees ginny uh

1623
01:28:29,440 –> 01:28:32,560
climate okay

1624
01:28:36,159 –> 01:28:40,840
sherry i’d like to volunteer for water

1625
01:28:46,480 –> 01:28:50,000
ellen multicultural

1626
01:28:55,840 –> 01:28:58,480
art center

1627
01:29:02,159 –> 01:29:05,280
okay we’ve got uh three more

1628
01:29:05,280 –> 01:29:08,159
looking for millennials senior and teen

1629
01:29:08,159 –> 01:29:10,320
i’d be willing to do the senior again

1630
01:29:10,320 –> 01:29:11,679
since i’m not on any of the other

1631
01:29:11,679 –> 01:29:12,719
committees

1632
01:29:12,719 –> 01:29:14,239
bill

1633
01:29:14,239 –> 01:29:15,600
i i’d like to volunteer for the

1634
01:29:15,600 –> 01:29:18,000
millennial committee okay cool thanks

1635
01:29:18,000 –> 01:29:20,880
you want to be a millennial again

1636
01:29:20,880 –> 01:29:23,280
i never was but uh i certainly would

1637
01:29:23,280 –> 01:29:25,360
like to chat with them i think they will

1638
01:29:25,360 –> 01:29:27,760
be fun he’s hoping

1639
01:29:27,760 –> 01:29:29,120
so now we got to

1640
01:29:29,120 –> 01:29:30,880
do any volunteers for a senior and team

1641
01:29:30,880 –> 01:29:32,639
yeah i’d be willing to do the senior as

1642
01:29:32,639 –> 01:29:34,560
well since i’m not doing the audit or

1643
01:29:34,560 –> 01:29:36,239
the unrest or the

1644
01:29:36,239 –> 01:29:37,760
you know whatever

1645
01:29:37,760 –> 01:29:39,920
iat

1646
01:29:39,920 –> 01:29:41,760
any any volunteers for the team

1647
01:29:41,760 –> 01:29:43,920
committee

1648
01:29:43,920 –> 01:29:46,719
anything once

1649
01:29:48,639 –> 01:29:51,850
brian volunteering for that

1650
01:29:51,850 –> 01:29:54,239
[Music]

1651
01:29:54,239 –> 01:29:56,400
brian i think you’re a mute

1652
01:29:56,400 –> 01:29:59,120
oh okay

1653
01:29:59,680 –> 01:30:01,840
[Music]

1654
01:30:01,840 –> 01:30:04,840
um

1655
01:30:08,239 –> 01:30:10,560
to be on i didn’t get to say what i

1656
01:30:10,560 –> 01:30:12,480
wanted to be on but

1657
01:30:12,480 –> 01:30:14,320
i think i heard there was a climate

1658
01:30:14,320 –> 01:30:16,400
change in the watershed already taken

1659
01:30:16,400 –> 01:30:17,760
care of can you

1660
01:30:17,760 –> 01:30:19,199
submit to be on those committees even

1661
01:30:19,199 –> 01:30:20,560
though someone’s picked to be on it or

1662
01:30:20,560 –> 01:30:22,639
someone did or do you have a sort of a

1663
01:30:22,639 –> 01:30:26,080
decide who should be on it so so

1664
01:30:26,080 –> 01:30:27,679
so the key thing about these committees

1665
01:30:27,679 –> 01:30:28,360
is anyone

1666
01:30:28,360 –> 01:30:29,520
[Music]

1667
01:30:29,520 –> 01:30:31,360
uh is invited to attend these committees

1668
01:30:31,360 –> 01:30:33,280
um and certainly if you’re interested in

1669
01:30:33,280 –> 01:30:34,639
this community they definitely recommend

1670
01:30:34,639 –> 01:30:37,520
attending attending those committees

1671
01:30:37,520 –> 01:30:39,520
okay but there’s no formal obligation

1672
01:30:39,520 –> 01:30:40,960
that’s what you’re saying

1673
01:30:40,960 –> 01:30:43,120
no um yeah if you’re if you’re not a

1674
01:30:43,120 –> 01:30:44,719
liaison there’s no formal you have to

1675
01:30:44,719 –> 01:30:46,080
attend the meetings

1676
01:30:46,080 –> 01:30:48,639
but you’re certainly welcome

1677
01:30:48,639 –> 01:30:51,120
if you are a liaison to that committee

1678
01:30:51,120 –> 01:30:52,560
you have to attend

1679
01:30:52,560 –> 01:30:55,040
you you should definitely attend yeah

1680
01:30:55,040 –> 01:30:56,960
yeah you should really yeah it doesn’t

1681
01:30:56,960 –> 01:30:58,800
always happen yes okay and yeah there’s

1682
01:30:58,800 –> 01:30:59,920
a question

1683
01:30:59,920 –> 01:31:02,560
did i hear that did i hear i think

1684
01:31:02,560 –> 01:31:04,800
sherry did she volunteer for that is

1685
01:31:04,800 –> 01:31:06,400
that what happened

1686
01:31:06,400 –> 01:31:09,120
yes um so yeah i’d be delighted for you

1687
01:31:09,120 –> 01:31:11,360
to attend also

1688
01:31:11,360 –> 01:31:13,920
so okay same with me on the committee

1689
01:31:13,920 –> 01:31:14,880
i’d

1690
01:31:14,880 –> 01:31:16,719
be great if you want to commit come to

1691
01:31:16,719 –> 01:31:19,199
some of them

1692
01:31:23,280 –> 01:31:25,040
but the real question brian is did you

1693
01:31:25,040 –> 01:31:26,960
also volunteer for the teen and middle

1694
01:31:26,960 –> 01:31:29,760
school advisory committee

1695
01:31:29,760 –> 01:31:31,760
i didn’t okay

1696
01:31:31,760 –> 01:31:33,280
any any volunteers for the teen middle

1697
01:31:33,280 –> 01:31:34,639
school committee

1698
01:31:34,639 –> 01:31:38,920
yes i will take that one

1699
01:32:00,710 –> 01:32:03,930
[Music]

1700
01:32:17,070 –> 01:32:19,840
[Applause]

1701
01:32:19,840 –> 01:32:23,280
agenda is the inner armored uh trust

1702
01:32:23,280 –> 01:32:24,480
selection of representatives to the

1703
01:32:24,480 –> 01:32:26,639
columbia association to the inner bird

1704
01:32:26,639 –> 01:32:28,560
trust

1705
01:32:28,560 –> 01:32:29,920
did we do that already

1706
01:32:29,920 –> 01:32:32,960
yes um i’ll just read the resolution

1707
01:32:32,960 –> 01:32:34,639
uh

1708
01:32:34,639 –> 01:32:36,320
the portion says

1709
01:32:36,320 –> 01:32:38,639
it resolved that

1710
01:32:38,639 –> 01:32:42,480
we have kevin fitzgerald

1711
01:32:48,080 –> 01:32:51,040
and dick bolton

1712
01:32:52,159 –> 01:32:53,600
are selected as representatives to the

1713
01:32:53,600 –> 01:32:55,199
columbia association

1714
01:32:55,199 –> 01:32:56,880
incorporated to the inner harbor trust

1715
01:32:56,880 –> 01:32:58,400
incorporated board of directors for the

1716
01:32:58,400 –> 01:33:01,679
period from may 12 2022 until their

1717
01:33:01,679 –> 01:33:03,600
successors is slash r selected by the

1718
01:33:03,600 –> 01:33:05,760
columbia association board of directors

1719
01:33:05,760 –> 01:33:08,760
second

1720
01:33:17,679 –> 01:33:21,960
by ginny a second by allen

1721
01:33:23,600 –> 01:33:25,679
are there any objections

1722
01:33:25,679 –> 01:33:30,040
nope nope motion passes

1723
01:33:36,080 –> 01:33:38,560
next we have a resolution be it resolve

1724
01:33:38,560 –> 01:33:39,920
that the board of directors hereby

1725
01:33:39,920 –> 01:33:41,760
reappoints the falling slate of officers

1726
01:33:41,760 –> 01:33:43,719
of the corporation effective may 12

1727
01:33:43,719 –> 01:33:45,280
2022.

1728
01:33:45,280 –> 01:33:47,920
licky boyd present flash ceo susan

1729
01:33:47,920 –> 01:33:50,000
krabby vice president and secretary

1730
01:33:50,000 –> 01:33:53,679
marilyn schwartz treasurer don van dusen

1731
01:33:53,679 –> 01:33:55,840
assistant secretary

1732
01:33:55,840 –> 01:33:59,360
so moved do you have a second second

1733
01:33:59,360 –> 01:34:03,159
motion by ginny

1734
01:34:10,159 –> 01:34:13,040
second by kevin

1735
01:34:13,040 –> 01:34:14,960
any objections

1736
01:34:14,960 –> 01:34:18,920
objections motion passes

1737
01:34:21,120 –> 01:34:24,480
next thing on the agenda is the schedule

1738
01:34:24,480 –> 01:34:26,000
so the following are the list of dates

1739
01:34:26,000 –> 01:34:27,920
for the board of directors work

1740
01:34:27,920 –> 01:34:30,800
sessions and meetings for fy23

1741
01:34:30,800 –> 01:34:32,480
we have today’s organizational meeting

1742
01:34:32,480 –> 01:34:34,960
on the 12th give a board meeting on the

1743
01:34:34,960 –> 01:34:37,600
26th of may work session on the 9th of

1744
01:34:37,600 –> 01:34:40,560
june board meeting on the 23rd of june

1745
01:34:40,560 –> 01:34:42,880
work session on the 14th of july

1746
01:34:42,880 –> 01:34:44,880
board meeting on the 20th of july

1747
01:34:44,880 –> 01:34:46,480
work session on the 8th of september

1748
01:34:46,480 –> 01:34:48,560
board meeting on the 22nd of september

1749
01:34:48,560 –> 01:34:50,880
work session 13th of october board

1750
01:34:50,880 –> 01:34:53,360
meeting on the 27th of october

1751
01:34:53,360 –> 01:34:55,600
board meeting on the 10th of november

1752
01:34:55,600 –> 01:34:57,199
another board meeting the 8th of

1753
01:34:57,199 –> 01:34:59,199
december work session on the 12th of

1754
01:34:59,199 –> 01:35:01,119
january board meeting on the 26th of

1755
01:35:01,119 –> 01:35:02,159
january

1756
01:35:02,159 –> 01:35:04,000
work session on the 9th of february

1757
01:35:04,000 –> 01:35:06,880
board meeting on the 23rd of february

1758
01:35:06,880 –> 01:35:08,719
work session on the 9th of march board

1759
01:35:08,719 –> 01:35:10,480
meeting on the 23rd of march

1760
01:35:10,480 –> 01:35:12,320
work session on 13th of april and the

1761
01:35:12,320 –> 01:35:14,880
last meeting is scheduled for april 27

1762
01:35:14,880 –> 01:35:17,880
2023

1763
01:35:18,639 –> 01:35:20,800
question um

1764
01:35:20,800 –> 01:35:23,280
i noticed that the boc is going to meet

1765
01:35:23,280 –> 01:35:25,840
monday may 23rd

1766
01:35:25,840 –> 01:35:28,880
to set the agenda so there’s thursday

1767
01:35:28,880 –> 01:35:32,000
may 26th it says that the annual reports

1768
01:35:32,000 –> 01:35:34,000
from the advisory committees are already

1769
01:35:34,000 –> 01:35:35,600
on the calendar

1770
01:35:35,600 –> 01:35:38,400
um one do they know that

1771
01:35:38,400 –> 01:35:39,840
that they’re going to be reporting to

1772
01:35:39,840 –> 01:35:43,040
the board first kind of can’t

1773
01:35:44,480 –> 01:35:46,560
uh jenny moves to approve the calendar

1774
01:35:46,560 –> 01:35:48,400
do you have a second

1775
01:35:48,400 –> 01:35:50,560
second

1776
01:35:50,560 –> 01:35:52,239
andy seconds it

1777
01:35:52,239 –> 01:35:53,440
now discussion

1778
01:35:53,440 –> 01:35:54,800
okay um

1779
01:35:54,800 –> 01:35:57,440
so what i’m trying to find out is this

1780
01:35:57,440 –> 01:36:00,080
looks like it says thursday may 26th

1781
01:36:00,080 –> 01:36:01,760
board meeting annual reports from the

1782
01:36:01,760 –> 01:36:03,280
advisory committees

1783
01:36:03,280 –> 01:36:05,679
is that locked in stone one do they know

1784
01:36:05,679 –> 01:36:09,360
that they’re reporting um

1785
01:36:09,679 –> 01:36:11,520
yes they know they’re reporting that’s

1786
01:36:11,520 –> 01:36:13,679
why we put it on the calendar we started

1787
01:36:13,679 –> 01:36:16,159
coordinating the date in april and all

1788
01:36:16,159 –> 01:36:19,360
staff liaisons to the fy 22 advisory

1789
01:36:19,360 –> 01:36:21,119
committee so not in the new structure

1790
01:36:21,119 –> 01:36:24,080
and the structure that existed in fy22

1791
01:36:24,080 –> 01:36:26,080
have confirmed receipt of the

1792
01:36:26,080 –> 01:36:27,600
expectation

1793
01:36:27,600 –> 01:36:29,600
of the annual report being turned in to

1794
01:36:29,600 –> 01:36:31,360
be posted in time

1795
01:36:31,360 –> 01:36:32,960
and are prepared to make their

1796
01:36:32,960 –> 01:36:34,960
presentations okay

1797
01:36:34,960 –> 01:36:36,560
so that’s uh

1798
01:36:36,560 –> 01:36:40,080
really a whole meeting almost

1799
01:36:40,800 –> 01:36:42,960
when it gets to boc we would recommend

1800
01:36:42,960 –> 01:36:45,920
it’s the totality of the meeting yes

1801
01:36:45,920 –> 01:36:48,000
in terms of time okay so the boc will

1802
01:36:48,000 –> 01:36:50,639
have a role in whether that makes uh

1803
01:36:50,639 –> 01:36:52,639
you know whether the entire seven

1804
01:36:52,639 –> 01:36:54,080
committees should be reporting or not

1805
01:36:54,080 –> 01:36:55,280
okay

1806
01:36:55,280 –> 01:36:57,760
thank you well they’ve all been invited

1807
01:36:57,760 –> 01:37:00,239
and expected to be given their service

1808
01:37:00,239 –> 01:37:02,960
for the past fiscal year so yeah like it

1809
01:37:02,960 –> 01:37:05,520
is certainly the board’s decision

1810
01:37:05,520 –> 01:37:07,600
um it certainly would be disappointing

1811
01:37:07,600 –> 01:37:10,000
if everyone was not invited to present

1812
01:37:10,000 –> 01:37:12,400
no i know and uh it is

1813
01:37:12,400 –> 01:37:15,280
only seven committees not the 11 or 12

1814
01:37:15,280 –> 01:37:18,800
whatever the 11 that existed in fy 22.

1815
01:37:18,800 –> 01:37:21,360
oh

1816
01:37:21,360 –> 01:37:23,199
okay

1817
01:37:23,199 –> 01:37:24,800
all right thank you i just wanted

1818
01:37:24,800 –> 01:37:26,239
clarification

1819
01:37:26,239 –> 01:37:27,920
any any other discussion on the agenda

1820
01:37:27,920 –> 01:37:29,520
for the year

1821
01:37:29,520 –> 01:37:30,719
well i just want to make sure i’m

1822
01:37:30,719 –> 01:37:32,639
understanding what i just heard

1823
01:37:32,639 –> 01:37:34,719
i i got that the seven committees are

1824
01:37:34,719 –> 01:37:36,159
going to have board

1825
01:37:36,159 –> 01:37:37,520
members

1826
01:37:37,520 –> 01:37:39,440
liaisons does that also mean that those

1827
01:37:39,440 –> 01:37:41,760
other four committees in the future

1828
01:37:41,760 –> 01:37:43,440
are not going to be giving

1829
01:37:43,440 –> 01:37:45,840
reports to the board

1830
01:37:45,840 –> 01:37:46,480
i

1831
01:37:46,480 –> 01:37:48,080
believe they’d still be giving reports

1832
01:37:48,080 –> 01:37:49,280
to the board even though they don’t have

1833
01:37:49,280 –> 01:37:52,480
a board liaison i don’t know

1834
01:37:52,480 –> 01:37:54,080
i don’t think so they’re stacked that is

1835
01:37:54,080 –> 01:37:57,040
not how i read the board um approved

1836
01:37:57,040 –> 01:38:00,159
changes uh it would be that as janna

1837
01:38:00,159 –> 01:38:01,840
evans just characterized that the

1838
01:38:01,840 –> 01:38:03,600
minutes are posted

1839
01:38:03,600 –> 01:38:04,480
um

1840
01:38:04,480 –> 01:38:07,199
and there are summaries provided but

1841
01:38:07,199 –> 01:38:08,639
there would not be

1842
01:38:08,639 –> 01:38:10,639
board presentations unless the board

1843
01:38:10,639 –> 01:38:12,639
chose to invite the group to present

1844
01:38:12,639 –> 01:38:13,840
obviously at

1845
01:38:13,840 –> 01:38:15,520
a board meeting at any point during the

1846
01:38:15,520 –> 01:38:17,199
year

1847
01:38:17,199 –> 01:38:19,520
thanks for the clarification

1848
01:38:19,520 –> 01:38:20,800
okay

1849
01:38:20,800 –> 01:38:22,880
any other discussion

1850
01:38:22,880 –> 01:38:24,320
any objections

1851
01:38:24,320 –> 01:38:25,119
nope

1852
01:38:25,119 –> 01:38:28,080
motion passes

1853
01:38:28,800 –> 01:38:30,560
so i believe that brings us to the end

1854
01:38:30,560 –> 01:38:33,119
of the agenda for the board meeting i’d

1855
01:38:33,119 –> 01:38:34,480
like to thank you all for attending the

1856
01:38:34,480 –> 01:38:35,520
first meeting of the columbia

1857
01:38:35,520 –> 01:38:37,119
association board of directors for

1858
01:38:37,119 –> 01:38:39,760
fiscal year 23. um i’d like to please

1859
01:38:39,760 –> 01:38:41,920
welcome our newest members of the board

1860
01:38:41,920 –> 01:38:43,199
and also welcome back to all our

1861
01:38:43,199 –> 01:38:44,880
returning members

1862
01:38:44,880 –> 01:38:47,199
serving on this board can be challenging

1863
01:38:47,199 –> 01:38:48,960
there are times of disagreement

1864
01:38:48,960 –> 01:38:50,560
and even argument

1865
01:38:50,560 –> 01:38:51,920
but that is because we’re passionate

1866
01:38:51,920 –> 01:38:53,679
about this organization

1867
01:38:53,679 –> 01:38:55,840
and passion about colombia

1868
01:38:55,840 –> 01:38:57,840
more importantly serving on this board

1869
01:38:57,840 –> 01:39:00,239
is a rewarding experience despite any

1870
01:39:00,239 –> 01:39:02,400
disagreements that we have

1871
01:39:02,400 –> 01:39:04,239
we respect each other’s opinions because

1872
01:39:04,239 –> 01:39:06,239
at the end of the day we’re all here

1873
01:39:06,239 –> 01:39:08,080
with the same purpose

1874
01:39:08,080 –> 01:39:10,239
the betterment of our neighborhoods

1875
01:39:10,239 –> 01:39:13,360
our villages and all of colombia

1876
01:39:13,360 –> 01:39:15,040
the board and staff work with each other

1877
01:39:15,040 –> 01:39:17,360
to provide recreational and community

1878
01:39:17,360 –> 01:39:18,719
programming

1879
01:39:18,719 –> 01:39:21,199
to maintain a strong financial outlook

1880
01:39:21,199 –> 01:39:22,880
and to manage and preserve our open

1881
01:39:22,880 –> 01:39:23,920
space

1882
01:39:23,920 –> 01:39:25,840
space that is open for everyone to

1883
01:39:25,840 –> 01:39:27,360
freely enjoy

1884
01:39:27,360 –> 01:39:29,199
furthermore together we have a specific

1885
01:39:29,199 –> 01:39:30,719
responsibility to work with our county

1886
01:39:30,719 –> 01:39:32,719
leadership to ensure that howard county

1887
01:39:32,719 –> 01:39:34,560
continues to thrive both now and in the

1888
01:39:34,560 –> 01:39:35,600
future

1889
01:39:35,600 –> 01:39:37,040
there’s a lot of work to do and it will

1890
01:39:37,040 –> 01:39:39,280
not all be completed this year

1891
01:39:39,280 –> 01:39:40,639
after all we need to leave something for

1892
01:39:40,639 –> 01:39:43,280
the next board to work on

1893
01:39:43,280 –> 01:39:45,040
the important thing is that our work

1894
01:39:45,040 –> 01:39:47,119
benefits our community

1895
01:39:47,119 –> 01:39:48,880
colombia is consistently ranked as one

1896
01:39:48,880 –> 01:39:50,800
of the top places in the country to live

1897
01:39:50,800 –> 01:39:52,480
this is a testament to the dedication of

1898
01:39:52,480 –> 01:39:54,400
everyone here tonight and also the

1899
01:39:54,400 –> 01:39:56,000
dedication of everyone who works and

1900
01:39:56,000 –> 01:39:57,600
lives in colombia

1901
01:39:57,600 –> 01:40:00,000
we are truly a special community because

1902
01:40:00,000 –> 01:40:02,239
we are a garden for the growing of

1903
01:40:02,239 –> 01:40:04,000
people

1904
01:40:04,000 –> 01:40:05,280
with that can we have a motion to

1905
01:40:05,280 –> 01:40:07,440
adjourn so moved

1906
01:40:07,440 –> 01:40:08,800
do you have a second

1907
01:40:08,800 –> 01:40:09,760
second

1908
01:40:09,760 –> 01:40:13,159
meeting is adjourned

1909
01:41:02,480 –> 01:41:07,199
to order at 8 35.

1910
01:41:14,960 –> 01:41:19,239
yeah i will take roll dick

1911
01:41:30,560 –> 01:41:32,880
thank you andy

1912
01:41:32,880 –> 01:41:37,600
here jenny here sherry here

1913
01:41:39,040 –> 01:41:40,960
okay may i have a motion to approve the

1914
01:41:40,960 –> 01:41:43,600
agenda so moved second

1915
01:41:43,600 –> 01:41:48,719
jenny moves eric seconds any discussion

1916
01:41:48,719 –> 01:41:51,520
any objection

1917
01:41:52,800 –> 01:41:55,440
unanimous

1918
01:41:56,639 –> 01:41:58,800
i have approval of the minutes for may

1919
01:41:58,800 –> 01:42:03,040

  1. so i moved second

1920
01:42:03,040 –> 01:42:08,320
eric moves jenny seconds any discussion

1921
01:42:08,320 –> 01:42:11,119
any objection

1922
01:42:11,199 –> 01:42:14,199
unanimous

1923
01:42:15,840 –> 01:42:19,440
okay now we have the appointment of the

1924
01:42:19,440 –> 01:42:23,119
chair and vice chair

1925
01:42:24,080 –> 01:42:27,520
i move we adopt the resolution

1926
01:42:27,520 –> 01:42:29,679
this makes the chair in the vice chair

1927
01:42:29,679 –> 01:42:31,760
of this board of directors the chair and

1928
01:42:31,760 –> 01:42:35,360
the vice chair for the columbia council

1929
01:42:35,360 –> 01:42:38,960
andy moves al in seconds okay

1930
01:42:38,960 –> 01:42:42,000
any discussion

1931
01:42:42,000 –> 01:42:44,880
any objections

1932
01:42:45,440 –> 01:42:47,840
unanimous

1933
01:42:47,840 –> 01:42:50,840
congratulations

1934
01:42:52,080 –> 01:42:54,719
all right may i have a motion to adjourn

1935
01:42:54,719 –> 01:42:57,719
second

1936
01:43:03,679 –> 01:43:05,280
thank you everyone

1937
01:43:05,280 –> 01:43:08,440
thank you

1938
01:43:29,760 –> 01:43:31,840
you

We Must Talk About Sang Oh – APFO

Christiana Rigby County Ethics Commission Opinion

Below is the Howard County Ethics Commission opinion requested by Councilmember Christiana Rigby on whether she could vote to fix the Citizens’ Election Fund.

Below are the Howard County Ethics Commission Opinions which were cited in Christiana Rigby’s Advisory Opinion.

‘Twas the Night Before . . . Court Opinions

In re E.S. BANKEST L.C., Debtor

United States Bankruptcy Court

Southern District of Florida

No. 04-17602-BKC-AJC

321 B.R. 588

February 1, 2005

West Headnote 1:

Proof of claim that disappeared,

somehow on its way to court,

would be deemed timely filed,

as of the Pioneer “excusable neglect” sort;

where, though carefully placed,

in attorney’s courier box space,

the papers vanished into thin air,

seemingly without a trace;

creditor acted in good faith,

the bankruptcy court did say,

and debtor was not prejudiced,

by the three-day filing delay.

West Headnote 2:

Proof of claim that disappeared,

somehow on its way to court,

would be deemed timely filed,

as of the “erroneous delivery doctrine” sort;

where, though carefully placed,

in attorney’s courier box space,

the papers vanished into thin air,

seemingly without a trace;

whether the courier took them,

or the Grinch,

as the court believed,

the interest of justice required,

that the claim be received.

ORDER GRANTING MOTION TO DEEM CLAIM

OF BDO SEIDMAN, LLP AS TIMELY FILED

(“How the Grinch Stole the Courier Package”)

Bankruptcy Judge. A. Jay Cristol:

* * * *

the Court has taken judicial notice; considered the candor and demeanor of the witnesses and proffers of testimony and stipulations of counsel in respect thereof; heard the argument of counsel;

and otherwise been duly advised in the premises, FINDS AND DETERMINES as follows:

T’was the weekend before Christmas,

All minds were on the season;

T’was the last day to file a claim,

And that was the reason.

That Hutton told Thompson

To file it today,

And she set out to do so

In the ordinary way.

Ms. Thompson put the claim

In the outgoing box;

There is no dispute

That box has no locks.

At the end of the day,

The claim was not there;

It simply had vanished,

Perhaps into thin air.

Attorney Hutton went to Court

Believing it was filed;

As he gave opposing counsel copies,

He smiled.

But filed it was not,

In the Court t’was not there;

Yes, indeed, it had vanished,

Perhaps into thin air.

Did the courier take it,

Or some other staff member?

Oh, where did it go

On that day in December?

Learning where it went

Was not a cinch,

But the Court finally determined:

It was stolen by the Grinch.

All the testimony showed

Excusable neglect,

So the claim is deemed timely,

That’s Pioneer’s effect.

If that’s not enough,

There is Rule 5005(c),

In the interest of justice,

Let the claim be.

In further remarks on the record

To be made by the Court,

An attempt will be made

To give the ruling support.

The motion is granted.

That’s all for today.

Go ye and try

To move this case on its way.

* * * *

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Johnny Diamond HELTON

v.

STATE OF FLORIDA


Court of Appeals of Florida

First District


311 So. 2d 381


April 24, 1975

Judge Boyer:

* * * *


At trial, the trial judge refused to allow the defense to introduce evidence of intoxication, on the ground that intent is not an element of the crime charged. The proffered evidence showed that the jailer at the Detention Center gave vodka to the inmates on the night of the escape. The effect of the inebriating beverage on the appellant and his fellow inmates was colorfully portrayed by defense counsel in closing argument to the jury as follows:

“Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the jail

Not an inmate was stirring, they couldn’t make bail.

The stockings were hung by the cell door with care

In hopes that St. Nicholas would soon be there:

The inmates were huddled alone in their beds

While visions of freedom danced in their heads

And guards in their uniforms and John in his rack

Had just settled down for a long winter’s nap,

When up on the roof there arose such a clatter,

John sprang from his bed to see what was the matter.

Away to the window he flew like a flash,

Tore open the cell door and threw up the sash.

When what to his wondering eyes should appear

But a miniature sleigh and eight tiny reindeer,

With a little old driver, so lively and quick

He knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.

More rapid than eagles his courses they came,

And he whistled and shouted, and called them by name:

Now, Macquire, now Bass, now Fillingame, Newman,

On, Ingram, on Suggs, on Crosby, and Helton.

To the top of the porch, to the top of the wall

Now dash away, dash away, dash away all.”

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Richard GANULIN

v.

UNITED STATES of America

and Jeffrey Niemer, et al.

No. C-1-98-557

United States District Court

Southern District of Ohio

Western Division

71 F.Supp.2d 824

December 6, 1999

District Judge Dlott:

ORDER GRANTING MOTIONS TO DISMISS

THE COURT WILL ADDRESS PLAINTIFF’S SEASONAL CONFUSION

ERRONEOUSLY BELIEVING CHRISTMAS MERELY A RELIGIOUS INTRUSION.

WHATEVER THE REASON CONSTITUTIONAL OR OTHER

CHRISTMAS IS NOT AN ACT OF BIG BROTHER!

CHRISTMAS IS ABOUT JOY AND GIVING AND SHARING

IT IS ABOUT THE CHILD WITHIN U.S. IT IS MOSTLY ABOUT CARING!

ONE IS NEVER JAILED FOR NOT HAVING A TREE

FOR NOT GOING TO CHURCH FOR NOT SPREADING GLEE!

THE COURT WILL UPHOLD SEEMINGLY CONTRADICTORY CAUSES

DECREEING “THE ESTABLISHMENT”AND“SANTA” BOTH

WORTHWHILE “CLAUS(es)!”

WE ARE ALL BETTER FOR SANTA THE EASTER BUNNY TOO

AND MAYBE THE GREAT PUMPKIN TO NAME JUST A FEW!

AN EXTRA DAY OFF IS HARDLY HIGH TREASON

IT MAY BE SPENT AS YOU WISH REGARDLESS OF REASON.

THE COURT HAVING READ THE LESSONS OF “LYNCH” 1

REFUSES TO PLAY THE ROLE OF THE GRINCH!2

THERE IS ROOM IN THIS COUNTRY AND IN ALL OUR HEARTS TOO

FOR DIFFERENT CONVICTIONS AND A DAY OFF TOO!

1Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668 (1984).
2Dr. Seuss, How the Grinch Stole Christmas.

* * * *

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The STATE of Ohio

v.

HAYES a.k.a. Santa Claus

No. 2002 TRD 1583

119 Ohio Misc.2d 124, 2002-Ohio-4228

Warren Municipal Court

Trumbull County, Ohio

Decided July 1, 2002

Judge Thomas P. Gysegem:

* * * *

FN1 Jolly old Saint Nicholas, lean your ear this way!

You tell every single soul what I’m going to say;

Trial day is coming soon; Now you dear old man,

Concerning BMV and you—I’ll tell you best I can!

* * * *

{¶26} The court grants Santa’s motion.4

FN4 He sees you when you’re sleeping

He knows when you’re awake

He knows if you’ve been bad or good

So be good for goodness sake!

{¶27} CASE DISMISSED.

{¶28} IT IS SO ORDERED.

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David Lorenza JOYNER

Minister of Law of the Mandingo Warriors

v.

Bob GUCCIONE, Editor In Chief and Publisher of

Penthouse Magazine, Kathy Keeton, Vice Chairman

of Penthouse Magazine, Peter Bloch, Editor of

Penthouse Magazine, Joe Conason, Writer/Contributing

Editor of Penthouse Earl Miller, Photographer

of Penthouse Magazine, and Paula Jones,

One Time Employee or Poser for Penthouse Magazine

United States District Court

Western District of Texas

Austin Division

No. A-00-CA-799-SS

Not Reported in F.Supp.2d

2000 WL 33388728

December 14, 2000

District Judge Sam Sparks:

ORDER OF DISMISSAL

T’was the night before Christmas and all through

the prison,

inmates were planning their new porno mission.

While the December issue of Penthouse was hitting

the stands,

the Minister of the Mandingo Warriors was warming his hands.

For you see, the publishers had promised a pleasurable view

of the woman who sued the President too.

The minute his Penthouse issue arrived

the minister ripped it open to see what was inside.

But what to his wondering eyes should appear

Not Paula Jones’ promised privates but only her rear.

Life has its disappointments. Some come out of the blue,

But that doesn’t mean a prisoner should sue.

Accordingly,

It is therefore ORDERED that Plaintiff’s application

to proceed in forma pauperis is denied.

It is further ORDERED that Plaintiff’s complaint is

dismissed with prejudice as frivolous.

It is further ORDERED that Plaintiff is sanctioned

in the amount of $50.00 plus costs totaling $200.00

for filing frivolous lawsuits.

It is further ORDERED that the Clerk of the Court

shall not accept any new lawsuits from Plaintiff until

his sanctions are paid in full.

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People of the State of NEW YORK

against

Michael SERGIO

Criminal Term

Supreme Court

Queens County, New York

December 19, 1986

Justice Phyllis Orlikoff Flug:

Ode to a Criminal Trespasser

‘Twas Game Six of the Series when out of the sky,

Flew Sergio’s parachute, a Met Banner held high

His goal was to spur our home team to success,

Burst Beantown’s balloon claiming Sox were the best.

The fans and the players cheered all they did see

But not everyone present reacted with glee.

“Reckless endangerment!” the D.A. spoke stern.

“I recommend jail – there, a lesson he’d learn.”

Though the act proved harmless, on the field he didn’t belong,

His trespass was sheer folly and undeniably wrong.

But jail’s not the answer in a case of this sort.

To balance the equities is the job of this court.

So a week before Christmas, here in the court,

I sentence defendant for interrupting a sport,

Community service, and a fine you will pay.

Happy holiday to all, and to all a good day.

Columbia Navy Veteran Learns on Live with Kelly and Ryan That Her Mortgage on Her New Home Will Paid Off by Veterans United

Navy and National Guard veteran Jasmine Reese learned while Zooming with Ryan Seacrest and guest host Alexandra Wentworth that the mortgage on her recently purchased Columbia home will be paid off by Veterans United.

See the interview here: https://players.brightcove.net/296474766/HkJmfAv8G_default/index.html?videoId=6281471362001

Columbia Association Board Meeting July 29, 2021

Youtube Transcript from the July 29, 2021 Work Session of the Columbia Association Board of Directors

1
00:00:00.000 –> 00:05:00.000

um
okay good evening everybody
um i’m janet evans chair of the ca board
of directors please remember that this
meeting is being live streamed
you can find tonight’s agenda and
background materials on the ca boards
webpage and links to those documents can
also
be found in the description section of
our youtube
live stream for those of you watching
there if you are virtual please meet
your microphones or phones unless
speaking
raise your hand to speak i will record
names in the order in which i see them
if you are virtual please use the chat
feature
as we move through the meeting i will
introduce each item on the agenda
before there were no votes tonight if at
any point you have trouble hearing me or
another board member please say so
and i will now call the roll andy
present sherry here
jenny here dick here lynn
here tina here jess here
alan here renee here
lakey here and me
thank you very much
all right tonight’s timekeeper is jenny
thomas can i get a motion to approve
tonight’s agenda so moved
second
any objections
all right agenda approved we have no
residents speaking out this evening so
we will move right into the
work session topics so first up is our
discussion
of the fiscal year 23 budget priorities
um we have two sections under this one

2
00:05:00.000 –> 00:10:00.000
leki’s going to cover the strategic plan
and business model changes and then
we’ll go into
the material that the worksheets that
leki sent out ahead of time and
include in that the summary of um
what i had sent out just in terms of a
starting point for our discussion
okay okay so um i guess just as a quick
framework um tonight’s
session was a you know added session
that was meant to have a focus on budget
priorities
based on board feedback
and um discussion that had happened
there was a desire to have an additional
session
and i would say the other feedback
included the idea that
the board didn’t feel like they had a
lot
of interaction at the beginning of the
budget process and wanted to
kind of set the
framework around priorities as a
starting point
and also as we discussed internally
the desire from the board to have more
scenario building involved in the
process we really needed to
have some conceptual agreement at the
outset
um and that’s what tonight is really
about so
the exercises that were sent out you
know as i indicated were really
um as staff uh you know mainly myself
lynn schwartz um director of finance and
then susan crabby cfo
and then some of the department heads
talked about what would really be
constructive for
us to know at the beginning and that’s
really where the exercises and
activities came from
was how to kind of frame your thoughts
think through what the options might be
so what i thought i would do is just
start out
by articulating the ideas behind
suggesting the strategic plan and the
business model changes and then really
it’s just um
discussion from there so
the board has an adopted strategic plan
it is often referenced
as something that you know staff efforts
get tied back to that programs get tied
back to
so we thought obviously the budget
documents have referenced it
but there seemed to be a real desire to
make sure at the outset
we were thinking about the strategic
plan uh
and how do we want to resource that
strategic plan and that’s really kind of
what we want feedback on tonight
thoughts on tonight um and you know all
of
most everyone here was directly involved
in that
uh but irregardless um
i think you know the key categories just
for the people that are listening
identities
resource stewardship environmental
sustainability
leadership development and advocacy
the second piece that we kind of combine
for the discussion this evening
is this idea of business model changes
so this is something that has come
up with the board as well and we wanted
to
really push this to the front of the
process and ask the question
what are any kind of significant or you
know quote unquote disruptive changes
that might be worth actually building a
scenario
out around so i do want to be clear
here that when we talk about business
model changes that might
impact expenses but it could also impact
revenue right so is it new revenue
sources
is it taking you know certain expenses
offline
stop doing the services so there’s a lot
of different ways to kind of think about
that
i did want to make sure to point out
that part of what we talked about in our
ability to do
scenarios in the house is
depending on what it is it might be one
budget cycle it might be
you know three years that something
would have to close over
or open over so you know in this
discussion it would be helpful
to have some thought around that really
is a multi-year process
obviously some of these might impact
operating
or capital budget or both and then
lastly
it’s not listed here but i wanted to
make sure
to mention that if there are an
abundance of ideas then we would like to
make sure that as part of our discussion
tonight
we perhaps take some kind of vote and
prioritize
we feel like we can only really run out
three
true scenarios if they are really full
alternates to the way the budget is done
we just don’t have a capacity to run you
know 27 at once so

3
00:10:00.000 –> 00:15:00.000
um we feel like three seems very
reasonable
so we would want to try and get some
consensus around that
this evening if we can so those were
really
the framing thoughts and um
we really just want to open the floor
again this was for the board to start
the process and we’re going to be taking
a lot of notes and that’s really what’s
going to inform
again going back to our process we’re in
the listening
collection stage and then we’ll be
shifting into
staff analysis and starting to
synthesize that and scenario build
so thank you thank you
okay so um
i think we all know this is a little bit
tough to have these conversations simply
because we want to start
up here and and i think
what leki sent out is a great place
to try to have that conversation um
we’re sending them the information now
so they can let you know
okay thank you
all right so it turns out we did have
some resident speak out that
went to spam so we will be adding them
as soon as they’re available
um in the meantime i did just share with
you all
the summary of what i had sent out
and that was basically just the must-do
should do nice to do and i think the
results are quite interesting um
i don’t know if i could share this up
there or not
can i okay
so let’s just take a quick look um
oh yeah so sorry i know it’s very teeny
because there you can’t google forms is
not very conducive to creating
readable reports but we can start over
here
i will increase the size
okay so clearly um open space has long
been an important topic for all of us
and um
you know the majority of the board
indicated that it’s a must do
and those that didn’t indicate must do
indicated should do
so that’s a pretty big one and similarly
sustainability
ranked in the in the same place
um the only one that got unanimous
agreement was the annual charge uh
obviously we would not exist without the
annual charge so i’m glad we all see it
that way
um but
you know so clearly there’s also some
discussion on some of these other ones
i think what maybe makes sense is
taking just a couple of minutes on each
one
and talking about so you know
and i’m also open to suggestions if
someone has a better way to structure
this i’m just going to put this out
there but
um i think i just want to do a quick run
through of this
and so if anyone has a significant
comment about why they might have
thought something wasn’t nice to do
versus a must do
i’m open to that um
you know i guess i’m curious on things
like tot lots well that was sort of
distributed school-age services
also distributed so i’m curious i think
when i see those i wonder if we’re
thinking different things about them
yeah andy
so i’d just like to add um i found it a
little difficult to fill out
yeah and part of it is because
must do should do and nice to do i think
have various different meanings
to people and to me i i can tell you
that from my point of view
i looked at must do must do means
mandated you know we have to do it
i gotcha and if you if you look at the
list i mean in my view it was just there
are only three things we have to do
basically legally on the board of the
annual charge board of directors
administration
everything else is it’s kind of like
yeah we should do
or it’s nice to do so it got to be a
little bit difficult
so you know do i like school-age
services yes and i think it’s important
but i don’t think there’s anything
mandating us to do it
and so i found it a little difficult to
fill out the charts so
that’s that’s a very fair comment thank
you thank you sherry
and then tina i think alan i’m sorry
alan go ahead
i don’t know um alan and then so alan

4
00:15:00.000 –> 00:20:00.000
i’m
uh yeah go ahead allen and then sherry
and then tina okay thank you
i guess i would take a step back and for
me
and i think first i want to thank the
staff for
having this and us for having this this
meeting this is
something we haven’t done in all the
years i’ve been on the board um
for me it was i tried to apply larger
criteria
uh to each one of them so for me it was
things like
what serves the most people what serves
the most
diverse group of people what serves uh
the creation of community within the uh
within the city and
sort of as as a up there but
a little bit secondary what is it that
that
we can do that others don’t or can’t do
as well or um even
cheaper and better than we might be
doing
so that’s why for me open space tot lots
uh sustainability is sort of a must
because it’s it’s
the world um it applies to everything uh
school-aged services to me was community
building and and we
hit a wide variety of kids with that
and families things like
sports and fitness and other things
where more on the
should do or nice to do because there
are others who
who can do those things and maybe it’s
better for us to start
deciding what we what we really focus on
that’s it for now thank you all sherry
um yeah i guess um unlike andy
um i was not taking a legalistic um
perspective on it i was looking at our
mission
and our vision as tied into our
strategic plan
and so what jumped out at me thinking
about a diverse community
thinking about quality of life um
thinking about about evolving needs
and we’ve got the word dynamic and
inclusive
so i think those are really really
important drivers
as we look out to the future because
this way of looking
at the budget um leaky i think you said
this
at one of our meetings it’s it’s about
values
that that a budget represents values
um and our identity
is sort of a little split now um
we’ve got the customer of the
memberships
and we’ve got the stakeholders who are
the lien payers
and over time there has been an
ongoing tension between the needs
in effect of these two groups so that’s
a little bit
of what we have to take into
consideration
here also in terms of
where we sense our
our drivers our sense not only of the
economic drivers and the financial
drivers
but um our responsibility and
our authority thank you
tina thank you um i i want to echo what
alan said about um
you know seeing how many different
i think of them as barriers to entry and
how many of those can we remove
and i also in filling out the form would
have valued a
stop doing this button to pay
but i think this will absolutely seem
some great conversation
leaky i was i’m just going to make a
blanket
statement that there’s a reason that
there weren’t definitions as much should
do
right so everybody you kind of
interpreted and
tina as you said you know we kind of had
that idea of
keep suck start modify so they certainly
were meant to kind of
get you thinking in a lot of different
ways depending on what kind of thinker
you might be
thank you and i will say i approached it
similarly to alan in terms of
i looked at must-dos as
uh you know what what do i feel like we
must do as the organization that we are
so i think that was a similar
all right um
any more comments on that particular one
i don’t have to continue sharing this
so you all have this document you can

5
00:20:00.000 –> 00:25:00.000
take a look at how your peers
responded did you email that janet i
just shared it right now
because as of this afternoon only six
people had responded and since then nine
half so
okay so i updated it and then shared it
so yes
you just got it okay um so i don’t know
how many of you filled out the priority
order for me that was
um that was a more brutal exercise from
the standpoint of like oh
when you have to rank it above something
else
i kept moving things around so i don’t
know um
if anyone would like to comment on if
they did their priority order
how that may or may not have influenced
your thinking yeah dick
hey was kind of interested when we
started on this discussion about how we
were going to do the budget
and when i saw where we were heading i
have to say i was a bit disappointed
i don’t think we got anything actionable
out of that last chart i mean it doesn’t
tell us
what we’re going to do it doesn’t tell
us it doesn’t put dollar figures on
anything
it doesn’t end the priority list i mean
you have something like
open space well that could be dredging
lakes it could be
pathways it could be mowing the lawn and
i mean we had a lot of apples in there
we have
oranges in there and i’m just wondering
if we should rethink this whole process
i i don’t really like
where this is going it’s hard to
make judgments about things without
knowing what the dollar signs are
it’s difficult to prioritize things when
you don’t really have a narrow
definition of what it is and
i think about where you know one of the
biggest items we have right now
is of course all the programs we do
sports and fitness
the arts center the horse center the
golf courses all these things
and we get a vote on that
by the by our members they vote with
their feet
they either show up or they don’t show
up and
they do that every day and we have a
very talented staff
that measures who’s doing what and when
and
why and how and if nobody’s showing up
for a class or something that gets
taken off the schedule um
so what our
what our board policy is
is to create a
a smorgasbord of activities
and events and programs
and it should be widespread we have a
very diverse
community out there some people like to
ride horses some people like to
make pots over at the arts center some
people like to play golf some people
like to
go swimming some people are on swim
teams i mean
we got it all there and we know
what’s popular and what’s not popular we
know what the community wants
just from usage now maybe things come up
that will you know maybe we should try
out
and you know that’s good but you’re not
going to get it off of charts like this
and
i really think we ought to be thinking
of a different way of approaching this
thank you alan yeah i guess i sort of
see it a little bit differently
to me it is the large
to me there’s a
an underlying question is what do we
think
everybody in columbia ought to help pay
for
bingo and and that we need to be
thinking about and we you know we could
use the
the values that we talked about before
when we did our
retreat a couple months ago
but i think that’s something we need to
like because when you say
people vote with their feet well people
a lot of the things
dick that you mentioned have they are
expensive but they have dollar
signs coming back too in revenue
people pay to use the the horse
people paid to use sports and fitness uh
etc and so to me
there’s a distinction between uh you
know so one of one of our
questions is what do we as a board
insist be fully paid for
by fees and what are we willing to
charge everybody in colombia for
and that’s why i go to the large
questions
of trying to sort of create a set of
criteria that i can apply
and hopefully through discussion will
create for the board and we can apply
to make that decision of what everybody

6
00:25:00.000 –> 00:30:00.000
should pay for
the side piece that i want to mention
now
that i don’t i don’t want to distract us
in this particular part of the
discussion but
i think is really important when i see
villages
listed alongside sports and fitness
community services open space
etc it bothers me
because there’s a real question you know
if we were to say
annual charge funding of villages is
something we’re not going to do
does that mean we really believe in our
heart of hearts that that’s revenue that
ca
is going to keep and and will use
or would we would we reduce our our
annual charge
concomitantly so that uh villages could
then
start charging themselves so to me that
the whole question of villages
is its own separate thing that needs to
be discussed
ready um it’s renee renee’s up and then
you
oh i’m sure that’s okay i’m sorry buddy
okay
so i’m going to look at this i i agree
with what you said
alan i agree with some of what you’ve
said dick i agree with almost
a little bit of what almost everyone has
said
um but i don’t see any thinking out of
the box even with the questions
um i i think we all know that we’re
sitting here
looking at sports and fitness although
we’re not
but it’s losing a lot of money and it’s
being financed with assessment money
now i’m i’m not strictly opposed to that
but what i don’t
see is staff
or whoever we have to hire consultants
taking a real
deep dive looking at this we now have
competitors in howard county to the gyms
between 30 and 50 depending upon how you
define competitor
we now have competitors to the golf
courses
within an acceptable driving distance
there’s almost 60 golf courses
we now have competitors to our indoor
tennis facilities
we have competitors to tennis so my
question
is a couple things if we take the
current
situation with sports and fitness and
project it out 10 years
where’s our break even are we looking at
these losses for eight years 10 years
two weeks where is that how long are we
going to
let sports and fitness go as it is or do
we need to look at
the structure of it i’m not saying close
it but do we need to restructure it do
we need to
and under what guidelines do we
restructure
the other thing is we got a wonderful
spreadsheet
or report from dennis about
capital expenditures out ten years but
not included in it
were capital expenditures for
neighborhood centers but now
neighborhood centers could possibly come
up again
i think to really look at the budget we
have to look at
what if we threw everything into the pot
neighborhood centers
swimming pools whatever what does it
really cost us over 10 years
to operate this stuff to maintain it as
far as capital renovations
what is the real cost we don’t really
know that number yet i’m going to tell
you that right now we don’t know that
number
what is the real cost of sports and
fitness okay
if it continues to run i mean we’re
financing
about 6500 resident memberships
okay that’s six percent seven percent
that’s not a great deal of people that
doesn’t mean that it can’t be successful
it means that it’s not successful okay
when you only have that market
penetration
the number of 19 percent that’s not
success
what do we have to do to get the market
penetration up do we have to change the
programs
do we have to clean up the assets make
them more
current because some of them look very
dated
what do we have to do to be successful
maybe
it’s not tennis maybe it’s badminton i
don’t know
what the next sport is we have to start
thinking in the future
and put away the past and i don’t see
the material here to do any of that
ginny then dick then lynn okay
um
i guess one of the ways i’d like to see
us think about
approaching the budget and this is this
is one one way
uh is really get an idea or or
the the data on what exactly our fixed
costs are that we have
absolutely no say in the headquarters um
you know utilities uh whatever
that that’s it we either come up with it
or we’re in trouble all right and

7
00:30:00.000 –> 00:35:00.000
then i would add to that
do we want to subsidize income
qualified individuals
which is about a million bucks in the
budget or do we want to look at why the
county maybe should be helping with that
so what are the things that
that and what will it cost what does it
actually cost
so we know if we get 63 million in
revenue
already 23 million is is accounted for
or 10 million whatever the figure is
so we’re really only talking about the
remainder
we’re not talking about the whole annual
charge 63 million or whatever it’ll
amount to in the next budget
that’s more reality is what i’d like to
work with on that um and then as i put
in the income qualified because
that’s that’s sort of a real major
decision that is costing you
x amount of dollars is that a role for
ca
um is is this another decision we have
to make
then uh go on from there with all these
other things
and that’s kind of difficult to really
um
weigh one against the other and
uh especially when we talk about golf
are we talking about the two
existing golf courses and they’re not
going to change or are we talking about
uh it’s costing us x number of dollars
but
um we will be looking at um
maybe you know a different way of of uh
utilizing the golf courses or providing
golf service or something like that
it’s hard to really figure out what
we’re doing other than this
are we talking about these are the costs
on the current budget
they’ll be pretty much the cost plus an
increase in the next budget and that’s
how we say whether that’s a priority or
not
um it’s interesting thank you
oh and partners i’m sorry last thing
partners
there’s no discussion here that a lot of
these things
are we really going to look at well
maybe it shouldn’t just be ca
maybe we should be looking at how we can
get
the county involved or something else
partnering with other groups that’ll
save us some money but yet we can
provide that service
thank you so dick you’re next in the
cube but what i’d like to do is pause
here and go back to resident speak
out if everyone’s good with that
so uh joel hurewitz has joined and
joel are you with us
yes good evening hello welcome three
minutes
apparently you have some technical and
communication issues
joel if you could please state your name
and village for the record
[Music]
joel hurewitz from harper’s choice
i saw the facebook comment about tot lot
and surprised i’m the only one
talking about that even though
apparently it’s a big issue
from attending some of the hickory ridge
meetings um
what up first of all i don’t understand
why you’re wedded to tot lots
because for those who fail to learn from
history could then repeat it you’re
going to keep making tight lots
why not have lots for older
children and even adults with some of
the places
i find that your objective criteria i
felt was
didn’t have enough points to take into
account all the things you should be
you’re considering the number of
children from the census in the
school polygon data because there’s some
polygons
that they’re actually no children in
because they’re suppressed
and they’re less than 10 or they’re less
than 20 if they’re on the
data so you should take into account
that and not be building it we have no
kids take into account the proximity the
other playgrounds from
the that’s the schools and from the hoco
parks
and for example the proximity of bland
air should be taken account for the ones
closest to it
um because that’s in walking distance
this
couple of the ones the community parks
with parking at the neighborhood center
should also be totally different they
should be larger and be considered a
community amenity not
the same as the ones that generally
reach on the pathways i saw
a family bring their two kids to the
swansfield neighborhood center by car
so those should be totally different
and i don’t see any discussion about
that there’s
different options at different parks
because the kids and the parents might
like things different
so i’m afraid they’re all going to get
the same
i guess during the summer slides can be
too hot
the rascal that’s as a model seems a
nice for
someone’s backyard but not for a

8
00:35:00.000 –> 00:40:00.000
community park
but why do they need all the expensive
play equipment why don’t you use the
robinson nature center’s example which
apparently is well received from the
internet comments
with tree stump steppers a hollowed out
climb in and on and a buried tunnel
culvert which apparently cost less than
four hundred dollars a tractor supply
and why not have some ninja climbing
equipment
which the hoco parks seem to have from
the pictures i
haven’t visited them at blender
and as i said apparently for
the adults why not some exercise
equipment that’s at cedar lane
and holiday hills which according to the
county’s facebook posts when they opened
up holiday hills it says
has something for everyone with great
exercise equipment a large expensive
playground swings and a climbing wall
for the kids
so as i said i think you need to expand
your criteria and
be more flexible and um
so help that be added to the discussion
thank you joel any questions for joel
we appreciate your comments
thank you all right did we have any
additional residence
okay i think we’re good if not we might
have to take another
little break so okay
um thank you everyone so back to the
budget commentary uh dick you were next
up uh yeah
um people keep talking about
uh getting help from the county that’s
really a dead end
the county is a competitor of ours
they have their own programs to run
they really i mean they’re nice people
we cooperate with them in a lot of ways
but to expect them to support our
programs when they’ve got their own
programs
i i just i think that’s a little
expecting too much the
key thing here is the programs that we
offer
are the whole is greater than the sum of
the parts
what’s important is that we have this
huge
collection of things that makes columbia
special
and these are things that the entire
community has a shot at
can use maybe if they don’t use it they
might
they think they’re going to use it we
offer competitive pricing
for our members for our residents and
this is one of the reasons why columbia
is such a great place to live
and i i worry about the board getting
into the weeds
our our position should be we want to
have
a diverse program that
is of value to our residents and to our
lien payers that’s
where it is we’ve got a very capable
staff that can put together that program
and then if we want to get in and
nitpick this or that we can do that but
let’s
let’s let them take a shot at they’re
the ones who have the data they’re the
ones who have the expertise
and they’re the ones who have the time
another factor here i think
should be mentioned is all of this money
is kind of fungible
it’s difficult to say when somebody
buys a fit and play membership what
they’re buying for
i mean they might want the sports park
for their kids they might want the
swimming pools
it’s not always easy to pick apart what
they’re getting
and if we started pricing things
individually
um that just maybe that takes away the
simplicity of what we do
here’s you know we have these packages
and this is what comes with it
and even the people who don’t take
advantage of some of the things that we
have to offer
this improves their property values
because these are
services that make colombia attractive
to people
so i i guess in summary what i’m trying
to say
is let’s let’s not overthink this let’s
you know i think there’s a better way to
attacking the budget than trying to
figure out how many tot lots we have or
any of these questions these are not
board questions
yeah when i was looking at this um
and again looking at the priorities
we’ve been through our visioning
our you know our strategies for how
we’re going to implement our vision
our messages uh but then i thought
i’m doing it this way what would my
village board
say i thought about the five members of
our village board
they all come from very different places
they’ve been here different times
i think it would be really a good

9
00:40:00.000 –> 00:45:00.000
exercise to take this
form back to our village boards and have
them
fill it out i would love to see the
difference in the answers where do they
put their priorities
you know i i just think it’s i think we
should broaden this to at least include
some response
you know at least for our own for our
own purposes
um from our villages we have about three
minutes left
what did you take out um okay i
had myself in the queue so i just wanted
to say a couple of things one
i i’m going back to allen’s point about
the
what i what i had written down even
before allen spoke was subsidized and
self-sustaining you know what things do
we think our community value that we
feel that the annual charge should be
supporting
and what things do we offer that are of
benefit to our residents but that should
be paying for themselves
so that was one thing um two you know
the question of financing sports and
fitness
i’m i’ve always been curious to see what
these numbers look like without
allocating
all of the overhead expenses of
cas operations to every organization
so i mean i i don’t know if there’s some
opportunity for us to
have either like profit and loss
statement for
individual facilities obviously that
wouldn’t apply to something like
i mean it could apply to open space so
we know what that would look like
but i mean things like this the gyms the
art center the tennis
center the horse center all of those
things and understanding really
um you know how many people are using it
versus what we’re paying for it or how
much of their own costs that they cover
so you know i think and dick to your
point i don’t see how we can’t start up
here because if we expect staff to put
something together without us providing
any values to them then
then we are getting in the weeds because
then we nitpick the numbers
after the fact so i think the what
what the whole board said last year
minus tina of course but
what the board said last year was that
they wanted more input at the beginning
and that was the whole nemesis of the
genesis sorry of the um
of just having the values discussion was
to start talking about how do we want to
apply these dollars and
and look at it that way so i i i don’t
see any option
except to have a values discussion and
to do that we have to start at the
higher level and then work our way down
and so anyway
okay so we have on the list lakey sherry
just tina allen
andy and then dick but we’re going to go
over them
well we are did you take out for
resident speak out
yeah i just want to say i was in the
queue before joel
spoke yeah oh i’m sorry i keep getting
points just okay i didn’t
i didn’t see you okay okay
all right am i going or is jessica no no
you could go
okay let’s let’s arm wrestle and i’m
scared
so i i wanted to make one clarifying
statement and then
um i i guess be a little uh
perhaps put a finer point on what would
be a
helpful outcome for staff this evening
um
as a clarifying statement again
as the cover email said these weren’t
assignments that um you know were
required to do
they were different ways to think about
it um
i want to say that so far um
i haven’t gotten anything that that
we’re able to take action with as staff
so
i just want to be mindful of the time
and
i have no problem if everyone wants to
take the exercise and wide
up the piece of paper and throw them
away that’s fine we’re all sitting here
what would be constructed that you want
staff to know
so on that note i have heard things like
serve the most number of people serve
the greatest diversity of people
do things that create community do
things that create
quality of life what
are those definitions because i’m
hearing
very diverse ideas
i also heard the greatest number of
things is what we need to do because
that delivers service to people
so what is going to be most constructive
for staff
to be able to put scenarios together for
you to then
decide what you want to move forward is

10
00:45:00.000 –> 00:50:00.000
definitely going to be
what is the priority is it a sheer this
is the greatest number of people
is it a sheer we need to more closely
track demographics which you know
obviously
it’s going to be difficult to do that on
who uses open space on a day-to-day
basis but if that’s something that’s
important to the organization
we’re gonna figure out a way to do that
so
those kind of um i would call them
filtering questions
it doesn’t really matter what you call
them but statements of
these are the key priorities these are
the important factors
that we then can start to filter against
i do want to be clear that um you know
reference was made that that no
outside the box thinking has been put
forward
the staff purposely has not put anything
forward
that is exactly what this meeting is was
the board said we want to start at the
beginning and not have staff put
anything forward
so any outside the box idea you want to
put forward
my understanding was that that now is
the time to do that
for us then to go do the scenario
building
so just some clarification thank you uh
jess and then sherry
yeah um i would i kind of i mean some of
what you said late like he was sort of
what i was going to say which was i feel
like we are getting in the weeds and the
point of the exercise was not to
to really talk about like how we’re
going to do the budget but just to
apply the values to the things that are
there so when we started the
conversation my initial thought
was having that discussion about what
are the things that we can all agree on
that the annual charge should cover
and to me that’s a nice starting point
um and i think it’s pretty fair to say
that you know what we hear
from residents and surveys from 10 years
ago up to now
is open space outdoor pools
and so i think you know and then sort of
trying to i know we haven’t created our
document
for filtering things but looking at
those values
trust stewardship financial stability
and community i believe they were i was
going off memory
and and then trying to sort of
look through the rest i mean to me there
is something to be said for
you know who agrees that that open space
is a must do and taking a straw vote
and then i think we can prioritize in
terms of
um you know which things people should
pay for
and which should be self-sustaining um
and i think that’s sort of where the
conversation has to start i think
thank you sherry
now thank you jess for what you just
said because i think
we’re actually going to be able to hone
in on some
general areas that are going to really
jump out
in in terms of where the the consensus
and commitment
is there is one other thing and and
janet this
this key for me when you talked about
the p l statements or
facilities um one of the things that
we’ve seen
over time as the community has aged
repairs and maintenance has eaten up
more and more of the budget
and i think that that’s something that
um
that we really have to take a good hard
look at the same thing was true
for late dredging 10 years ago before we
came up for a plan
every time it would come up it would
shock the entire board
and like drive a hole into into the
budget
coming up with a master plan for how to
do it
over time and how to space it out
and i think this speaks to lakey’s point
as well that
there are some changes that are not
going to be possible in one year
two year or maybe we’re looking at five
years
we have to remember that this is about
master planning
so i would like somehow to um
incorporate um repairs and maintenance
every time we talk about a facility i
would just ask like to ask people to
think about that
maybe we can get some figures on that
i was recently talking to somebody who
was talking about schools
and how in the school budgeting the
initial
capital cost is one thing that’s talked
about
but the 30 years of repairs and
maintenance
doesn’t enter into the budget and we’re
at a point now
where i think we’re going to be
hard-pressed to to actually have
to do that so as we look to the future

11
00:50:00.000 –> 00:55:00.000
i just wanted to make sure that that
didn’t get lost
in the conversation thank you thank you
tina
thank you um just i also value what you
said
a lot i think that’s going to be really
helpful um
the especially the the combination of
outdoor pools and open
space i’m wondering if i need to just
start thinking of those as one thing
instead of two things the other question
that i have for us to think about
is what’s missing from this list what
are we not doing
that we need to be doing
and you know the first thing that i
might throw out is something around
transit
i have no idea what that looks like
although my kid just got back from dc
and said that the bike share is the
greatest thing he’s ever seen
so you know maybe there are ideas
that we can consider like what’s missing
also thank you
alan yeah thank you i
i really appreciate what janet lakey and
jess said and others who who chimed in
as well
uh i just
dick you said we offer attractive prices
to residents and i guess
again for me and i it is beating a dead
horse for
i hope it’s a live horse it’s not that
we offer those prices is that we
require all colombians
to pay for that so
that’s something we have to decide
whether that’s something we want to
continue
doing if that if we believe that’s
takes us to our mission i think the
question of
overhead as long as the overhead
is distributed among facilities and and
programs
reasonably there’s always going to be
overhead so even if we
sold off our sports and fitness to
somebody else
the overhead associated with that would
go away but but whoever
bought it would have overhead so i i
don’t see any problem with
keeping a reasonable overhead uh on
different parts of what we do
i think it’s a wonderful idea for us to
take this
back to our villages in whatever way we
want to whether that’s with our boards
or conduct our own survey and so on
but i will say and i think this may be
saying what others have been saying in a
slightly different way i would like to
see us
have a scenario where
uh our sports and fitness
golf uh gyms
uh move over a relatively short period
of time to becoming
self-sustaining required to be
self-sustaining in whatever that
requires whether that’s
changing the pricing structure whether
that’s uh
rent you know getting an outside
operator to come in and and we
lease the facilities to them whatever
ideas the staff could come up with
however many relatively short number of
years it would take
to get to self-sustaining and for me
that’s minus the outdoor pools
which to me are part of the community
building and service to a wider variety
of people so that’s a scenario i’d like
to see
i would like to see us start to
uh is something we recommend to all the
organizations we work with
start tracking those demographics you’re
not tracking now
in whatever way makes sense and and work
up to it because
if you don’t know then you can’t know
and and
if we want to serve the widest for one
of the things i’d like us
to know is are we having differential
impact on different parts of the
community
and tracking demographics would be would
be a help for that
and i agree that as final thing that
in any scenario that we have we need to
be more
intentional about what our
infrastructure
maintenance and replenishment if you
will
program is and make sure that we are
funding that
at a reasonable level
okay we have andy dick grenade jenny me
and then jess
wow um so it was an interesting
conversation
um that i’ve heard from different ideas
from different people
i think it might be helpful
if i know we do economic models which
generally last for 10 years and they
cover a variety of things um but i was
wondering
if there could be and see i don’t know
if 10 years makes any sense right now i
mean that’s the problem
given the current thing but i’m thinking
like well maybe five years
i mean just something a little bit
longer than one year but i say like if
we could get like a five year like a
five year projection
on the annual charge income
yeah now we know the commercial stuff is
going down but i think

12
00:55:00.000 –> 01:00:00.000
we’ll probably hear that this year and
figure out but like a five-year
projection on
how much money do we actually expect
right over those five years
um another thing is a five-year
projection on the capital budget
if we actually did what
dennis and the the other stuff i mean
said so what what
really do we need right no um yeah not
that i
necessarily can afford it i mean but but
you know just
an idea like for the next five years
what do we really need in terms of the
capital budget right
um and then i’d also like a five-year
projection
on what i’ll call the fixed costs and
and in particular for me
that’s interest depreciation
and taxes and insurance yeah because
those are like those three things we
can’t get away from
um now there might be other things too
but those are the three big things and
the reason i say that is
we don’t really have 45 million dollars
i mean because we have got to take the
interest off we got to take the
appreciation off we got to take the
taxes off i mean
so we don’t really have 45 million to
spend so what’s actually realistic
um that that that the money we have to
spend
and and i think if you take off you know
like fixed costs and then
another is would it be possible to do a
five-year projection on administrative
costs um because that’s the other big
chunk um i’ll say administrative and
board of directors because the board of
directors costs money
um we cost money um
but that then kind of gives you an idea
of what do you have to play
with like in terms of for for open space
for sports and fitness for community
programs that gives you a much more
realistic idea i would think from just
for me
um and i i would think that one scenario
i would like to see
is what if we just stay with the current
you know
what would it look like okay if we just
you know we do we take the 22 budget and
we’re going to do 23.
yeah we’re going to keep the same
programs keep the same so i’d just like
to see
what’s that going to look like and then
i’d like to see another one that kind of
follows a little bit of what alan said
is
what if we looked at the different
divisions that
offer services
and said what would it take what what if
they
had to cover their operating costs minus
the fixed cost and minus the
administrative allocation
so so i mean what would happen
if sports and fitness had to cover
all their operating costs what if
school-age services had to cover
all of their operating costs not the
fixed and not the
administrative allocation but just
basically they’re covering their cost
um i think that would be a good scenario
because then that would give us an idea
of
well you know now can you do it in one
year no i don’t think you can do it one
year
but at least it gives you an idea to
look at it maybe that’s what we should
do maybe we should move
to requiring some of the services
to raise enough money to cover their
costs
um but it kind of gets back to what you
know alan and janet have said
is you kind of got to know what’s their
actual
operating cost not the the stuff that
they can’t
you know the fixed cost administrator
they can’t do anything about it i mean
they can’t do anything about the legal
costs
um so what does it actually take um
so those are like two of the scenarios
that that i
i think would help your time is up sorry
thank you
that’s it all right uh dick you’re up
i think andy’s got a great idea because
when we look at the profitability the
supposed profitability of these programs
we are picking up a lot of outside costs
such as depreciation and etc and
and particularly finance financing
charges
um one of the things is if we’re looking
at programs having to pay for themselves
they’re no longer going to be able to be
competitive pricing and we have to
decide
is competitive pricing something we
offer to our residents
and we have to think in terms of what we
need to do to increase people’s
involvement in ca
every time somebody goes to a gym they
are adding value to their membership
in the community they’re thinking about
being part
of a community if we strip this thing
down the swimming pools actually i think
the
sports and fitness programs pretty much
pay for the swimming pools
at least that was my understanding but
if we
uh if we strip away all this stuff what
do we have left who are we just the
place that dredges the ponds i just

13
01:00:00.000 –> 01:05:00.000
don’t know what
ca would stand for and
looking at this thing in terms of the
individual programs just paying for
their own costs without overhead without
some of these other
administrative costs might be a clearer
way of
understanding uh just you know what the
what the true p
l is on them thank you
renee so i yield my time back to andy
because i want to hear the last scenario
there’s no last scenario um i’ll i’ll
wait to the end
go ahead no i’ll i’m okay with that if
she wants to see i want to hear with the
last scenario
no no renee do you have something to
share with me no i have nothing to share
uh jenny okay um
one we we keep saying we’re serving our
residents we’re serving more than that
we’re serving members as well
some of them are our residents but a lot
aren’t
um and we could fold without that other
income coming in
so we do have to be competitive
and we have to keep that in mind second
i love the idea of five year plan you do
that normally
in business on especially capital drives
me nuts if i don’t see exactly what it’s
going to cost including
repairs etc fixed costs i talked about a
half hour ago
that’s what i want to see so i really
know what reality testing is
but again we really have to consider
whether we’re going to put the subsidy
which is close to a million bucks
for income qualified into those fixed
costs
um and the the last thing is we talk
about
or at least i’ve heard a lot of this
what we
can do for our residents
um we’re in we’re not
uh in a vacuum we’re not a in a silo we
have the county we have the state we
have the private sector we have
others doing things for our residents as
well
so i really want to know why we’re doing
something or what the staff suggests we
stop doing
because everybody else is doing it in
that area or that with that service
we don’t need to do it we’re just
duplicating effort
at a cost that everybody else is doing
so i really want to learn more about
that i don’t want to keep
looking like we’re in a silo or in a
vacuum okay thank you thank you
i’m next on the list i just wanted to do
two clarifying points actually what i
was talking about was what andy was
suggesting
um alan when i referred to overhead
costs i actually meant fixed costs i
didn’t mean like the operational cost of
the individual facilities i meant
those costs such as the administrative
expenses of the headquarters that are
applied
out to all of the facilities so um
so the administrative allocation i think
is how andy classified it and that’s
more descriptive
i heard someone say something that made
me think of
what would it look like if we created
like if money were no object what would
our ideal budget look like
what would we want to be providing and
obviously that’s a big thing i think i
mean
you know i think there are a lot of
things that have come through the board
over time that
um have been
covered uh and i’m sure people would
like to see
continue to be covered but if you know
so that you know some i think someone
mentioned it with
regard to the capital expenditures if we
had
all the money in the world to have a you
know state-of-the-art
facility or or whatever i mean i think
dennis is pretty practical about that so
i will say that like
in in terms of like what do we need
versus
um what could we have kind of thing but
i don’t know how to structure that but i
think it sort of goes back to renee’s
earlier point about
how do we think bigger than like what
would be the biggest
impact that we would like to have and
then how
um do we apply that framework um
in a maybe more practical scaled down
way that
enables us to manage our budget
responsibly but then
achieve those things that we are seeing
as our values so
i don’t know the answer that was
rhetorical all right jess
so to sort of add on some of the
scenarios that andy
and and alan mentioned if there were a
scenario that i wanted to see
um it would be that everything
that has a membership or that people pay
for
above and beyond their assessment charge
should be self-sustaining except pools i
think pools should be free for everybody
so that would be the scenario that i
would want to see
and just you know working in the
nonprofit world right if you have a
program
that is continuing to you know

14
01:05:00.000 –> 01:10:00.000
dr it may serve the mission but if it’s
continuing to drain your finances
you let it go and so i kind of look at
it with that philosophy and was sort of
what jenny was saying and i know this is
an
unpopular opinion because there are a
lot of things that ca offers that i love
and i think are beneficial
but they are things that are offered by
howard county or
by private companies you know when ca
started we were the only game in town
now there are other people out there so
i would really like to see ca focusing
on what people care about the most
and what um really you know
what the hoa stuff um then maintaining
the open space
providing pools and
um and then everything else should be
like a social enterprise it should be
making money
to go back to fund the other
programs um so that’s my unpopular but
that’s the scenario i would
love to see and if it means increasing
the assessment then it means increasing
the assessment
which we haven’t done in a bajillion
years so it seems
and i think if people didn’t have to pay
for pools
i think they’d be willing to pay more in
their bill
and i’ll get off my soapbox okay uh andy
and then lakey
i’ll put you back in did you want to
finish what you no let out um
okay lakey then you’re up and then allen
uh i’m keeping a running count and i’m
up to
four scenarios so i just want to make
sure we reserve time thank you very much
but just as a running count i have for
um
otherwise i did just want to have a
couple clarifications around the
five-year projections
two of them through the categories like
capital budget
i think we frankly need some more
guidance there because
i think the key is there’s obviously in
projections there’s always
a ton of assumptions that you’re making
right so
what is the priority right because a
five-year capital budget
that is prioritizing um
mitigating climate change looks very
different than one
that is only focused on repair and
maintenance right so
some guidance of like what are the
priorities around
uh what that projection would be because
i certainly understand the value of it i
guess my question is
we’re back to kind of i at least in my
view we keep coming back to some of
these value
ideas of what is most important because
we can craft a budget
that makes sure our facilities
um you know have all the newest
investment
when i say facilities is that our
neighborhood centers
is that our you know sports and fitness
facilities
is that our outdoor pavilion space so
so there’s some you know value judgments
i think inside of that
that would be really helpful to clarify
and then on fixed costs
i i feel like i’m getting some context i
do know that was prepared as part of the
budget last year i’ve seen that
documentation
so i’m not clear what we need
in addition or different than that so
i’m happy to do it differently
but that information has been provided
but this conversation makes me feel like
for some reason that wasn’t digested or
are you just asking for an updated
number so i guess that’s kind of a
clarification
uh alan renee tina and then i’d like
okay after sh and then sherry and then i
would like to talk about
actual scenarios that we decide on so
that we can be bored
okay um i will say that
i i don’t necessarily have to have us
go out of our way to mitigate climate
change i do want us to go out of our way
to
make sure that we are not contributing
to it
when i think about fixed costs i i do
think we’ve
had this conversation over and over
again and
i just see fixed costs as proportional
to our activities so they’ll be
other than the items that andy mentioned
uh you know if if we do more it’s going
to cost more we’ve got more fixed costs
around it so
there’s there’s not a lot of fixed costs
to keeping our our lights on if we don’t
do a whole lot
and finally i’m going to join jess we
may have
some differences around the edges but
that’s a soapbox that i’d
love for us to talk about to me it’s a
it’s a good starting place to say
if we think we’re charging funds for it
we should be thinking about it becoming
self-sustaining i don’t think that’s
100 true because i don’t know for sure
for example
uh school-age services and some other
things that we might decide

15
01:10:00.000 –> 01:15:00.000
fit enough with our other values that
that we’re willing to uh
to require our assessment payers to to
pay for some of that
but i think that’s a good starting point
as
as a metric
renee i’m going to come back to the
capital budget
i love capital budgets i think you have
to throw the kitchen sink in the capital
budget
but you can do it and categorize the
expenses so here’s what our
environmental
uh improvements would be on the on the
buildings here’s what our
capital cost would be for swimming pools
here’s what our capital cost would be if
we
renovated you know three tot lots a year
for 30 years neighborhood centers if we
renovated one or two a year
it’s you know two three four five
hundred thousand dollars a year for 20
years
i think you can break it down almost by
category
and then below that i think you have to
put in
i don’t know what categories you i mean
the category thing is crazy anyways
here’s repairs we think there’s a
repairs and maintenance number
every year of 5 million or
four million dollars it goes across the
board so if we look at neighborhood
centers we’re not just
looking at it costs the villages and ca
or whoever we can argue back and forth
you know
two million dollars a year to keep them
up but we’re also going to put in
another half a million or a million
dollars to rebuild these neighborhood
centers
over some time period i think we have to
look at it
more holistically than oh here’s the
operating
expenses and income and it breaks even
but then there’s the capital size so do
the two mesh together well
thank you tina
i want to assert that the
operations and maintenance and can you
get close to your microphone please
i’m right on top of it no yeah now
actually now
if you turn that way that’s exactly what
you need to do right like that
yeah i mean i can hear you better alan
is that better
tina is talking is that better it’s
still pretty
quiet but i’ll i’ll listen close yeah if
i get any closer i’m going to lick the
thing
that is not sanitary no and i don’t want
to
and nobody wants that um
um operations thank you i wanted to make
sure that the
notion that operating expenses and
environmentally becoming environmentally
sustainable
to me are not unto the same thing if i
get any closer to this thing i’m going
to be on top of it
next to it does that help um
[Laughter]
go toward the green light green light
come towards the green light
he got a little see so anyways
i’m sorry environmentalism
and sustainability and operations to me
need to be wedded together
snuggled up tight and as close as we can
get them
and there was one other thing i don’t
remember what it was
and now that i’m not like battering the
microphone thank you all right sherry
go okay um
i think along with looking at
capital and and operating expenses
we really should be thinking through new
sources of revenue
and this has to do with the demographics
this has to do with new ideas
for programs services that are cutting
edge
that are or that can be expansions
of things that we’re already doing and
we do very well
again this this came off of a
conversation i was having with someone
about all the disruptions with with
school activities
and we’ve had before and after school
school age services that are based in
the school system
but what would be the possibility of
expanding to
columbia businesses to our columbia
business parks
to uh to new mixed
use housing and commercial
which could also have a place where ca
could
you know let’s go to the strengths of
what we’ve had
and then see if we might be able to
develop some new streams of
revenue and that would provide

16
01:15:00.000 –> 01:20:00.000
for it so that might be i don’t know how
we incorporate this
into a new scenario but i would love for
us
to have a brainstorming session
where we throw everything up on the wall
and um and and just you know blue sky it
because i think there are folks that
would have some very good ideas
thank you okay so
uh let’s talk about scenarios um
blakey can you tell us what your four
scenarios are
well i only got three and edited as uh
i had um early the idea
of all sport fitness um
so gems golf i think allen didn’t say
tennis i would assume it would include
racket sports as well but i
would require self-sustaining
try to do that over a short number of
years do not include outdoor pools
then i have just stayed with current
model
if all divisions with services so this
would be different because that would
include
community services um
uh if all services that we provide
um covered their own operating costs but
minus out fixed cost and
administrative overhead and then
if everything that has a membership
is self-sustaining which i read is
slightly different
but maybe not every service because
everyone is not based on a membership it
can be based on just a one-time fee
but everything that has a membership is
self-sustaining
but not pools but in this case actually
make
bulls free that would be an additional
step than just not including pools
so just to clarify that i would say
anything that people pay for
at all above and beyond kind of so like
if you’re paying to go to the horse
center if you’re paying to go to the art
center if you’re paying for school-age
services
it doesn’t have to be a membership but
anything that we’re charging for
above and beyond the assessment
that that’s where i was trying to get
with that okay
um but i do see those as separate
than yes all services
you know not covering operating because
then putting in that pools are free
um that’s a significant cost center so
you know obviously that would have a
different
kind of outcome so those were the four
okay so let’s uh andy i’m assuming in an
as
is scenario we would base that on 2019
i mean how would we well we’ll leave it
up to you okay we’d have to figure out
what if we just kind of kept going
uh the way we have a proportionate
budget to what we have
typically and i think that’s a good
thing to start
but it does a comparison yeah you’re
going back to 2014 but
i mean if you go 14 19.
the figures it’s going to take us years
to get there
well i said proportionately so whatever
our annual charge is
but yeah the annual charge yeah but the
sports and fitness i mean
i i think what we’re saying here is
if we just keep going the way we’ve been
going
and figure out what would most likely
happen this coming year
if you know we just set the thing on
cruise control
where would we be that that’s a good
idea okay alan did you have something to
say on the scenarios
yes okay i would like to see
uh i don’t know if the right what do i
where’s the modularization
of the scenarios i think might actually
make
it easier to put them together so for
example
it’d be a very different cost to uh
pay for supreme sports as versus to pay
for tennis courts so i’d like to know
how much we are even if it’s a rough
you know always assumption built in but
what are we right now expecting
everybody to pay
in order to keep those tennis courts
open uh and
what are we expecting people to pay in
order to keep uh
the gyms open uh and so on and i don’t
know what else
the sports park and so on um
because it may be that we’ll decide that
something
that you know there’s a combination of
factors
cost is one of them values of the
community is another one
that might help us make some choices in
terms of how we put together
a scenario from the mod from the modules

17
01:20:00.000 –> 01:25:00.000
tina did you have something specific to
scenarios i would value
a competitive analysis so if i’m looking
at those scenarios
for example fitness centers there are
other fitness centers
in columbia is anybody else running teen
centers
um you know how many other golf courses
are there
you know because sometimes i feel like
i’m making decisions in our vacuum
and and to to the points about you know
we are also part of the broader howard
county
that’s valuable to consider and
there’s some real value to if you live
in columbia
your swimming pool outdoors is free all
summer and the paths are open to you all
the time et cetera et cetera et cetera
you know that this is part of what you
pay for when you live in colombia
so i don’t know if that’s possible
i i took jess’s comment about you know
when we started there were no gyms and
now they’re bloody everywhere
you know how do you how do you balance
that
um leaky do you have any feedback i
would just
make a general statement that that
i can commit that will look at some
context i can’t inside of
our timeline that we have commit to have
a full competitive analysis across every
service area
that is just plain not feasible okay but
i think we can have a competitive
context that
um which i do think is relevant so thank
you thank you
uh sherry and dick did you hear me
okay okay okay is this scenario specific
we’re talking scenarios only okay i just
want to make sure
um i’m wondering if we could have a
scenario
where um programs
and services and various pieces of
memberships are paid for
separately the idea of putting together
from a menu of programs and services
i’m thinking of the current zeitgeist
seems to be only pay for what you need
if you remember the commercial because a
commercial
and um and this is something that in
fact was brought up
many years ago it was
never it was never gamed out
um to see what that would actually
involve
um but i wonder if that would not bring
in a greater proportion
um of people in colombia
if they can choose what they want
for what fits themselves and their
families
um at the moment and i would like to
recommend everybody read the book
paradox of choice and you might change
your mind on that
too busy laughing on that one get
somebody it’s the truth
read it good read you might think my
question was
i’m having a tina moment there for a
second
everybody’s talking about pools i assume
being free
i assume you’re only talking about
outdoor pools but there are indoor pools
there are five of them
and they serve they’re very valuable to
a lot of people that don’t use the
outdoor pools they serve different
purposes et cetera we’re not going to
make those free as well
okay i’m just okay are we let’s get back
to this
question so during the discussion
people brought up the idea of what are
we not doing so something we would add
and no one has mentioned stopping
stop it is there anything that we that
out of hand is like we just should not
do that
again that rises to a level anybody
wants to put forward as a scenario we
would consider so yes
i haven’t heard about you oh wait
jenny’s got some yeah
okay so yeah we need to decide on
scenarios
that’s what we’re focusing on uh so only
so we have one center let’s talk about a
proportionate scenario who is in favor
i just want to get a quick thumbs up
thumbs down of who would like to have
as a baseline a proportionate budget to
what we have seen typically
you know ongoing doing what we’ve always
done like correct like as
though nothing else has changed it’s
important to compare okay
anybody opposed to that can we do that
and break out the pools
from everything even in the baseline no
no let’s just do a baseline study
okay and then we can play with other
things okay
i thought the other i’m not we already
have that that’s
what we’ve got already not for next year
we’re talking fiscal year 23. wow
that just seems so slight of change
correct that but that’s that’s the point
i don’t see i don’t i don’t want that to

18
01:25:00.000 –> 01:30:00.000
take up one of our scenarios
that will take up a scenario yeah that’s
that’s a legitimate point
okay so the next one up is the idea that
we would have a scenario
where all sports and
fitness
golf tennis is sports park included in
that scenario
alan that you were suggesting
well like i said i’d like some
modularization on all that but
because i’d want to know what how much
each of those
impacts the bottom line and i think for
me
i just want to say lakey this idea is a
stop doing because what we
what we’ve been doing is allowing
residents
we’ve been requiring everybody to pay
for certain things
and that’s the stop doing stop having
residents everybody
pay for certain things so i’d just like
to point out that i think we would all
love to have a dashboard where we can
just play with things and come up with
our ideal scenario that is not
reality here so i think the modular idea
is a great one
but it’s very complicated to do and it’s
it’s i don’t think it’s feasible for the
folks we have working on our budget and
the resources that ca has for us to
expect that to be a reality
so that’s why we’re trying to get it to
three scenarios
because it’s not clear why that’s so
given that they’re going to have to come
up with that
how much does it cost to run these
things
and that’s really all and how much
income do they provide us
because every time you move dollars from
one thing to another thing
it changes it everywhere because where
do you take it from then you have to
make a decision
so if you say that this costs this much
as soon as you shift it
then where do you shift it from or to
so everything is a domino effect all of
it interrelated
that’s sort of my point yeah
but you can’t do it module like this
isn’t legos
you know you can’t take here are your
swimming pools
all the blue legos and because if you
take one away where’s that lego going
it has to go somewhere else going it’s
about
how much does it cost to keep our tennis
courts
operating and how much money do we get
does anybody else
have any suggestions for how to
structure this conversation because i’m
clearly
failing yes i i do go for it i i’m
getting nervous about how we’re
trying to a la carte our programs
and when we think about this that’s just
going to be an administrative
nightmare if we put a price tag on
everything
and the other problem is it’s going to
be very difficult to
to budget because until people actually
sign up for these things you’re not
going to know
how much money is coming in so we have
we have package programs and i think for
budgeting purposes we should stick with
our package programs
thank you so we have we are out of time
so do you have a scenario suggestion i
have a suggestion
okay excellent that while i appreciate
all the expense scenarios
that there needs to be a group of people
that sits down and looks at how we could
raise money outside of this organization
to run some of these programs okay
you can go to usta and get money to
teach tennis
to at-risk youth you can go to usa
swimming and get money
to teach swimming to at-risk you you can
go
president obama has a philanthropic
right here in maryland
to give money for at-risk youth you can
get money
for after-school care if you tutor
at-risk youth
so is there a way to raise money
outside of the normal budget process to
make up some of these deficits and i say
yes but it would take some weight for a
c4
pardon even for a c4 i’m saying start
a paperclip organization a 501c3
yeah i’m telling you well that i think
that’s a separate scenario
here’s the scenario because we’re
beating up the same dollars
if this is not about a specific scenario
it is okay
um i i i heard what leki said that we
haven’t offered anything in terms of a
stop scenario but i
respectfully disagree we were saying
before that if somebody else is doing it
ca staff needs to look at why are we
doing it
also uh like we stopped transit a long
time ago
the ponds we now have the county taking
over some of the ponds that we were
paying for all along
um uh overhead passes we’re now

19
01:30:00.000 –> 01:35:00.000
finally getting so yes that is a
scenario that i think we have to take
seriously
what can we stop doing that somebody
else should be doing
and okay andy like
could you um read those other three
scenarios real quick if you could just
give it the synopsis
yeah the three that were so uh
sport fitness if we were to say um
all of that needed to be self-sustaining
but don’t include outdoor pools then we
have
if all divisions with some kind of
service
however it’s paid for minus
or self-sustaining but minusing out
operating costs and
i’m sorry to cover operating costs minus
out fixed
cost administrative and then if
everything
that is paid for as a service is
self-sustaining
with none of that pulled out and we made
pools free
okay well your second and fourth
scenario are very similar yep
i mean i mean basically the fourth
scenario kind of covers
the seconds so i would suggest we go
with the fourth scenario
um and then i also suggest we go with
the third scenario
and that gives us three scenarios
any objections so i’m sorry can you just
clarify for me what they would be the
first one would be the
the sort of as is autopilot
the second one would be the one where
we’re pulling out
the uh fixed costs is that what you
what you’re talking about the
depreciation and the admin stuff
no it’s sports and fitness right second
one was sports and fitness becomes
self-sustaining
without including um outdoors okay and
then rolling that into number four
rolling that yeah in
so it would be baseline keep going you
know relatively as is
it would be um all services
would have to cover their own operating
costs but we would pull out fixed cost
administrative costs
okay and then the last one would be all
services would be self-sustaining
and outdoor pools are free okay got it
okay i move if we go there oh no well no
we can’t vote so we’re we’re not voting
but we’re going to go with it anyway
finished
we’re done sherry um yeah i don’t think
the second one
and the fourth one are the same at all
sports and fitness as
its own animal is different
from other um
programs services and things of that
kind
i agree and so i think we’re comparing
apples and oranges here i would not put
them together
yep but but you’re going to get that in
the fourth scenario because the poor
scenario will
will show you sports and fitness will
show you there’s nothing that says that
there’s nothing that says that okay well
we can say that yeah
i mean i think i agree with you sherry
that they are so for instance
i would be willing to subsidize
something that may be an event or a
community service or something like that
even if it’s a membership based thing
and so i think
the insight that that provides us is
where what are we looking at because it
may be that we’re willing
to subsidize it this much but not this
much
okay and so i i get your point as long
as we apply that
through through the entire process
um without lumping everything together
exactly
okay i didn’t think you made a good
point and i just want to say that that’s
what i meant by modular
so it sounds like we’re in in agreement
on that okay well hallelujah
let’s move on
all right thank you everyone for that
robust discussion
next up tot lot policy
dennis are you with oh there we go yes i
am
so i have four are we ready for me
we are are you ready for us
i am ready so i have 14 members tonight
and
that’s nick moonahan rob plummer jason
heath and steve boswell
and we’d like to do is make the
presentation hold the questions until
the end
but i’d also like to say that we have
not had a comprehensive hot lot
management plan ever as far as i know
we’ve never had one
so this is the beginning of creating one
and i
understand that this is important to the
community important to the board members
and support
staff and so i know that we didn’t
answer

20
01:35:00.000 –> 01:40:00.000
every question that you might have but
we’re going to give it a try and get
started here
nick you’re up
uh good evening everybody i’m nick
minningham the open space operations
manager
and myself and dennis and the cyp
management
team rob plummer director of capital
improvements
steve boswell and jason heath put this
presentation together
we don’t think it was it’s going to
answer
every question about our tot lot
replacement
plan but we think it’s a great start and
lays out
the process to move the replacement plan
forward
so it took a while to put this together
over a difficult challenging year
and i know it’s uh late already and you
guys have already covered a lot so i’ll
try to get through it as quickly as
possible
so that there can be some questions at
the end
okay so our objective is to provide
information
regarding the ca tot lot inventory
basically background information that
can be used to inform the replacement
policy we’ll cover historical
perspective
the inventory ongoing operating and
maintenance costs
existing conditions what is our
intermediate replacement strategy that
we’re employing
currently long-term capital costs the
proposed plan or
process and as part of that we’ll review
some objective criteria
that can aid in decision making and then
the final action items to move things
forward
oops sorry
talk in colombia were originally
intended to supplement the natural
amenities of the open space
by providing areas where concentrated
play could take place
and the top lots from the their
inception was
originally geared towards preschoolers
so ages two to five
67 to 74 there was 88 top lots
constructed columbia-wide
and i pulled this out of the archives i
actually thought it was quite
interesting that that was nearly four
times at the time
um four times the average than other
communities throughout the united states
and that was based on tot lots per
number of dwellings an additional 87 tot
lots were constructed between 1975 and
2010.
initially they ranged in size from 600
feet to 2000 square feet
but over time the safety standards
change and so the
footprint of the top lots have had to
increase in size
so they’re really all right at 2 000
square feet or
larger in many cases today
in 1996 is when you started to see uh
what we term as special top lots
so these are pre-manufactured uh more in
line with the playground
uh they were typically reserved for
neighborhood center park so the first
one was at stephen
forest and there’s others such as
dockside at um elkhorn that is not
part of neighborhood park that also
allowed us
to consider ada accessibility because
there’s parking lots tied to them
and also geared towards an older age
range of two to twelve-year-olds so tot
lots served an important role in
attracting young families to colombia in
the early days
and we believe they continue to serve an
important role today
near up the upper left corner that
picture
is
the standard typical ca top lot
fort you climb up and you slide down
and in the lower right picture is an
example of the pre-manufactured tot lots
that are being
installed as part of our intermediate
replacement strategy
this is star path and owen brown in the
bottom right
a big factor that has also changed is
in the early days of columbia howard
county reckon parks didn’t have a
major footprint when it came to
playgrounds in colombia
and so this picture is a drone picture
of
a mega destination playground that is
bland air park
there are actually 17 howard county
reckon parks playground like parks
there’s actually 20 playgrounds within
those
areas
this map shows the distribution of all
of those playgrounds
so we have and this was the slide that
was added to this presentation
so the red dots are the ca tot lots and
there’s
175 of those the green triangles
are howard county recreation and park
playgrounds and as i noted in the
previous slide there’s actually
20 unique playgrounds because like

21
01:40:00.000 –> 01:45:00.000
atlanta park there’s
three actual playgrounds in cedar lane
there’s two
and then the yellow circles or the
elementary schools which all
have playgrounds also and so there’s 18
in and around playgrounds and some of it
was a little bit of a judgment call
you know obviously these um there’s
there’s some
howard county playgrounds that are near
the edge of columbia but not really
accessible to columbia residents so
those were not counted
and you can see where a lot of ours are
a lot of ca top lots are clustered
tightly together
in the villages and neighborhoods and
the bigger open areas are either out
parcels or the middle patuxent
environmental area or you know the
hospital and
college campus area
this graph shows the distribution of the
tot lots
throughout columbia i won’t go through
every village but this just gives you
that
breakdown
so we have uh we think tot lots are
important
and we have a lot of them and we have to
maintain them and we have to maintain
them safely
and that involves weekly maintenance
visits um
um actually i take a step a step back ma
the open space maintenance team
um complete the operating and
maintenance of the tot lots
where the capital improvements team does
the
repairs and design and replacement and
so collectively
we manage the top lock system so from a
maintenance perspective
we conduct weekly maintenance visits
which involves the trash collection
safety checks redistributing the mulch
routine cleaning minor repairs
and mulch replacements that’s where we
dig out completely the 12 inches of
mulch
and replace with brand new play surface
mulch
and that our standard is 25 sites per
per year but it’s largely dependent on
the actual condition
and what the inspections come out as
so we have more thorough quarterly
inspections
and the annual full structural
inspection or audit that is completed by
capital improvements and then of course
that informs
the annual repairs and replacements that
are made
some of you may recognize this slide
just before the pandemic
i presented to the board the open space
standard of care guidelines so this is
the top
page out of that document the pandemic
certainly interrupted our full rollout
of this
but this gives you a further breakdown
on
how we have to manage and maintain the
top lots
and in the resource section in the lower
right is all the different standards and
resources that we use to inform
our practices
[Music]
so all that costs uh money of course
and when you break it down the annual
cost to a cost per tot lot
it’s actually only five thousand seven
hundred thirty three dollars
but we have 175 of these so the total
annual maintenance cost for tot lots
is just over a million dollars
uh one of the major challenges that we
have in maintaining the tot lots
is the age of them 97 tot lots are
actually 20 years or older
63 are between 10 and 20 year years old
that’s including the 10 pre-manufactured
neighborhood center
tot lots and one at uh lake alcorn
and the pre-manufacturers certainly have
a larger life expectancy
11 are between 3 and 10 years old but
in 2004 the federal guidelines for wood
preservatives changed
and so the lumber that was used to build
a lot of those 11
are are built with lumber with less
effective wood preservatives and that’s
been
a big challenge for us and four or three
years or old or newer
and those are all using pre-manufactured
play structures similar to the picture
the then and now picture slide
so this uh the traditional wooden ca
fork structures
they’ve been failing either because of
their age from the early inception of
them
or they were rebuilt in that time period
where the lumber treatment processes
were less effective
and that’s caused accelerated rot and
bug infestation
and was a big driving force of why we
moved from wooden
uh to pre-manufactured metal play
structures
we are having the same issues with the
wooden swings
and the picture on the right most people

22
01:45:00.000 –> 01:50:00.000
wouldn’t see anything wrong with it and
would be happy to set their toddler in
those bucket swings
me included until i started managing um
uh playgrounds uh the maintenance of
playgrounds and so this is the very s
the the picture on your left is the very
same
wooden swing we have to peel the mulch
away
and and this is a high-tech rot detector
called a screwdriver and we push that in
and
obviously if it’s soft and goes in
and then oftentimes we see ants pull
pull out
this isn’t readily seen by most people
and sometimes requires partial excavate
excavation
from the post to even detect sometimes
this is
occurring below the mulch line
and so if the rot is serious enough
we have to close that play structure and
again we’ve
we’ve replaced quite a few wooden swing
structures there’s
actually 18 pre-manufactured metal
swings out in open space today
so our intermediate replacement strategy
it’s based
and this has been ongoing for just the
last few
uh tot lot replacements based on safety
inspections
the safety standards and estimated
repair costs
we certainly don’t want to go in and
replace a tot lot
that that can be repaired cost
effectively
we consider that’s at that time that
it’s being replaced is when we would
consider
ada accessibility and inclusive play
we’ve standardized the play equipment
for efficiency and the space planning
and design
the purchasing of the structure and the
maintenance of operations
that really helps with the training of
the the staff also who’s out there
maintaining and inspecting them
our strategy has been to replace wooden
plate structures with pre-manufactured
powder-coated metal and plastic units
such as the rascal and the firefly
the picture in the then and now was of a
rascal and there’s some more pictures to
come
and we generally maintain that intended
age group of two to five-year-olds
any existing special tot lots and this
has not come up
yet that are already pre-manufactured
structures
would be replaced when warranted with a
similar size pre-manufactured structure
that serves two to twelve-year-old
you’re all generally
larger more in line with what you would
call a playground not a top lot
and then we consider additional play
activities for a larger age
range two to twelve-year-olds when space
budget and topography allows
this is a picture of the rascal
and there’s eight play activities
jam-packed into this unit
um where where the wooden fort
structures are really two
you climb up it and you slide down the
slide and so there’s different
various activities climbing activities
the
the poles and and the slide and
little uh activities with underneath the
structure as well
some of the additional play activities
that we consider that and some appeal to
a larger
age range is the climbing
[Music]
structures this is the cosmic warp and
then certainly
a lot of our top lots have spring
animals for toddler age
we got seesaws and and play panels and
as simple as these play panels
up seem they come in all different
various configurations
they can help help add a little unique
element
to the tot lots and i have a toddler uh
currently and he loves these things you
know there’s
it can just be anything from tic tac toe
to
different things you flip to make a
puzzle all kind of different ones and we
have several different variations
out in open space
and when all possible when space and
topography allow
we we replace the swing units with a
double bay four seat swing
sometimes that’s not um achievable and a
two
bay swing uh is uh is installed
and this also appeals to to the
twelve-year-old i also have an
eleven-year-old who still loves to
just swing on the playground so if
there’s not other activities at that
playground for him
this is usually his go-to either a
climbing structure
or a swing
and the cost to for the replacement
using
the pre-manufactured structures the
firefly unit
is a little smaller than a rascal and is
just under 68 thousand dollars
now that includes the removal of the ex
of that wooden replacement top lot
that’s being replaced
and then the rascal is right around 73
000

23
01:50:00.000 –> 01:55:00.000
and of course that’s subject to change
depending on the accessibility of the
site
the weather at the time we’re replacing
it topography
and of course the material cost at the
time of replacement
but these are average costs
so we evaluated a replacement schedule
comparing pre-manufactured top lots with
wooden top lots so when we look at
pre-manufactured hot lots
and and we have experience with these
because of those top lots that were
built
our oldest pre-manufactured hot lot is
steven forest that was installed in 1996
and elkhorn that dockside was installed
in 2005.
and we can go on a 25-year replacement
cycle
that would require seven top lots being
replaced per year
which ena which is an average annual
replacement
cost of five hundred eleven thousand
dollars for all seven of those hot lots
comparing it to a wood top lot we would
need to be on an eight year replacement
cycle
because of those less effective wood
preservatives
it would require 22 tot lots replaced
per year
at an annual cost of 1.4 million dollars
to keep pace with
the the useful life of those dialogues
now we have a couple different funding
buckets
so category three funding is used for
capital repairs that are typically not
part of
a full replacement and that
is about 150 000 per year
and we would expect that that cost would
go down
as more hot lots are replaced
category 2 funding is
is used for the you know full
replacements
and as i noted to be on a 25-year
replacement schedule
we that would require 511 000
dollars per year in category 2 funding
and the fy 22 category 2 funding
is 350 000. uh just to note that
so the proposed plan a proposed way
forward the process that we are
recommending
would be to adopt the intermediate
replacement strategy
as the long-range replacement plan and
that would
include standardizing the play
structures replacing them with
pre-manufactured
units the rascal or equivalent and
continue to use category 2 funding
the funding requirements would be 511
000
per year and that would likely vary from
year to year
that would be to place us on a 25-year
replacement plan
ca board approval and category 1 funding
would be required for tot lots that fall
outside of the current prefabricated
play structure
program so anything that would be
considered a special tot lot or if the
village was requesting something
um larger than the the than the typical
uh replacement we would
staff would use this objective criteria
and provide that information to to the
board
to help facilitate that decision so we
would look at a lot of different
elements
i’ll review in the next slide
decisions regarding consolidation of tot
lots or removal of a tot lot
of duplication of service area and other
factors
so if ca identifies an opportunity to
remove a top lot because it is
in a duplication of service area we
would also use that very same criteria
and provide that to the to the village
ncaa board for approval
you know we don’t when a tot lot
is not um in disrepair there’s not a
compelling reason to remove it so that
would only be
if if that top lot was ready to be
replaced
so the objective criteria that we’ve um
we’ve come up with
is the travel time walking distance to
its hot lot
the environmental impact safety
and sight lines the visibility of others
many of our top lots are secluded
and the more secluded they are the more
they’re opened up to non-park-like
activities
that’s where we find beer bottles and
other stuff
and we would also consider ada
accessibility
maintenance equipment access some of
these top lots are not easy to get to
even for us size and topography
the age of that tot lot and the tot lot
service area
and we define the top lot service area
as the dwellings or residential
homes within a 10 minute walk and that

24
01:55:00.000 –> 02:00:00.000
10 minute walk
is is a pretty well-known um
metric that many parks and recreation
associations and jurisdictions
uh use and that would be a 10-minute
walk without major barriers
not crossing a highway or you know
it you it would have to utilize our
pathway system and everything
safely get there and so we actually did
that
um we we put our top lot locations into
a gis
system and these are called iso chrome
so
anywhere in these blobs these blue blobs
represent ca tot lots
they if you’re within those you you can
see there’s multiple tot lots within
each
uh blob that means you can walk to many
tot lots
within a ten minute uh walking distance
the orange is howard county reckon parks
and this is only
west columbia west of 29
a lot to fit on one screen and the
purple
is closed
ca closed hot lots or partially closed
and even though there’s quite a few tot
lot names within those purple blobs
there’s only one tot lock closed within
those
isochromes um so that just goes to show
you if h
if harper’s choice zero four was
closed you would have six or seven
other top lots that you could walk to
within that same 10 minute
or less time frame so this is just an
example of how we would use that
objective criteria
so the process for moving forward and
what we would ask at
some point would be to approve that
intermediate plan
including standardizing the play
structures using the pre-manufactured
rascor equivalent
and the category 2 funding approved the
specialty top lot
funding using category 1 ca board
initiative funding
through that approval process one thing
to note like the
playground at dockside at elkhorn would
be to replace that tot lot would be 250
000 so that would eat up quite a bit of
that category two funding
that is needed to replace many more top
lots
catalog and to approve the objective
criteria
that would be used to assess let top
lots moving forward
in these scenarios so that would be
whether we
identify a need to add a tot lot to
remove a tot lot
or to expand a top lot beyond what we
define as the standard top lot
which would be 85 000 or or slightly
less
and that concludes the presentation and
i think we’re happy to
answer some questions thank you we have
alan in the queue
great thank you great great presentation
very complete
a couple of questions and a couple of
suggestions um
just i think i know but when you say a
metal structure you’re not talking about
the swings being metal
you’re talking about the the structure
being metal and the
swing still being plastic or whatever
they’re correct
okay the million dollars or slightly
over a million
that you you laid out the cost um
was there any sort of overhead
uh allocation to that or was that just
sort of
actual costs of maintaining uh
running these things yeah there there
certainly is some
uh overhead built in to that um
not but not all of it so it’d be very
difficult to parse out
the fuel for the trucks because they’re
doing several jobs at this at the same
time
but it it was it involved using our
blended rate
which does tie in management’s uh salary
so it is
is pretty comprehensive but there’s
certainly
some overhead that could not be included
great thank you
um
it’s just to demonstrate my ignorance
how do we
not allow people to use the tot line you
said we got six that
that are closed to the public where i
don’t know
each one there are why are they and how
do we do that
we take the swings off the swing sets or
we take the ladders off or we put um
barriers up to entry on the forts
so they’re closed for that can they’re
not closed because
they’re private and only certain people
get to use them they’re just
out of commission right now it’s what
you’re correct i see that that was not
clear to me i thought they were like
restricted use for only certain people
um
and so i would in your criteria
i would love to see some attention and
maybe i missed it

25
02:00:00.000 –> 02:05:00.000
to the amount of use that a particular
top lot gets
and i get that that’s you know you can
only estimate that and you know it’s
like
traffic studies you do what you can to
to figure out use um and then
more specifically i’d like to think
about
our audience uh from a need
and diversity point of view um
i think it is possible i don’t know this
for sure but i have a
hunch that there are certain either
whether it’s neighborhoods or areas or
groups of people or whatever it is
who have access to other forms of
recreation for example
and even though they may live within 10
minutes of the tile lot don’t use the
top lot
and others who don’t have access to
such things and may rely on the tot lots
in a greater uh to a greater extent so
i’d like to see something that
ties those things into our criteria for
keeping or creating a top lock thank you
okay ginny yeah
um when you say uh
within travel distance dwelling within
10 minutes
nick
yeah um do you mean to another tot lot
from that residential home to any top
lot
any tot lot ca tot line okay
go ahead
okay what i’m asking is say the tot lot
was right near bland
air park and the tot lot would cost 85
000
to be repaired or whatever and it also
may be some environmental problems etc
why don’t you consider bland air park
with
tremendous resources are available
yeah we absolutely would um so we put in
the
um ten minute walk to blandara park
also um and so there are a couple top
lots in that area
that would not have to cross a major
road
that doesn’t have an underpass or an
overpass and that would be an example
where the staff
quite possibly if if a redundant
if we felt like the service area was
being duplicated
whether that was within a ca tot lot
or a howard county rec and parks
playground
we we potentially could bring that
to the village and the board for
recommendations
or approval to remove that top law okay
that i thought that was the intent
but um i’m concerned somebody might
literally interpret this as
10 minutes to another hot lot so
what you’re talking about is something
that i understood it should be as well
and much broader it’s not just the
county park it could be
an elementary school that has uh a lot
of uh
things available right next door so
that’s right
thank you dick uh yes this is a great
presentation
a lot of detail i like it i just wanted
to say that
recently a tot lot was put in dorsey
and it’s got an enormous business every
time i walk by it there are kids
playing on it it’s a huge neighborhood
amenity
we have a lot of young families who’ve
been attracted to the neighborhood
and i think this is part of why
i i just want to say that
these top lots are are an amenity that
we really need to
maintain thank you
any other questions so nick what would
you
like the board to provide
are you would you like our input in
terms of
what we see as potential criteria
for assessing top lots or do you already
have
something in mind that we may be seeing
at a later time
so if i could so we laid out what we
thought were the general guidelines and
we could make them more specific
and bring them forward so we’d like the
board to approve
the general principle that uh tot lots
would be
moved forward under the intermediate
plan which is the up to eighty five
thousand dollars
that anything that’s a specialty tot lot
or
a request that exceeds that would have
to come to the ca board
um for their approval and as i said
before we’ve never had
a comprehensive management plan for tot
lots and it’s been kind of it has been
haphazard and that’s been a challenge
looking at it going forward because they
haven’t been treated equally in the past
and they’re not all going to be treated
equally going forward but there should

26
02:05:00.000 –> 02:10:00.000
be some consistency
so we’d like to use those objective
criteria
to create the guidelines that that we
model a plan for moving forward under
and so i got you guys well i just had
one follow-up question i was curious if
a village wanted to consolidate
would there be consideration for
um you know so if a village said hey we
have these 10 that aren’t really well
utilized
can we combine them into a mega
playground like will that be something
that will be part of that policy
i think that’s a great idea um as long
as it’s 10.
okay well we would like some guidance on
the minimum number that could be
consolidated to make it worthwhile
yes because if it’s two if the math
doesn’t work
but yeah that could be part of that as
well yeah or maybe not mega but
a little bit bigger a playground
something more age
for a wider audience all right so uh
renee sherry than leakey
so i would like
to put this on the agenda for board
approval
as is i think the um
the nitty-gritty of the objective
criteria
isn’t really of a concern to me i trust
the staff to make good decisions
and i think next month is a good month
to do it let’s get into september we
don’t have meetings in august
september let’s let’s just do this i
think as it sits
it’s it’s good policy it’s not there’s
no procedures and nitty gritty
let’s leave that to the staff and let’s
get this underway
uh sherry and then leaky um yeah i’d
just like to
ask that we have enough time to run it
by
the villages so that we get some
feedback and i guess my other question
was
dennis has this been kid tested
we have we have two two models
only two models for um
for change one of the things i’ve
noticed over time is that there seem to
be fewer and fewer kids playing outside
so i think in in keeping with
our fitness and wellness perspective um
here we’re you know something that would
encourage
older kids to get out
and um and and be in the open space
is a way of building support and comfort
for being an open space so i this is
actually a serious question
about getting some feedback from kids
about whether these two models are
things that are attractive to them
and um and how they would respond so
again that may be just um
if we get some pictures or something we
can take this to the villages
ask people to bring their kids literally
and get some feedback from them
and keep in mind the age group this is
geared to this is
geared to two to five um these specific
play structures so this is not geared to
a 10 year old necessarily are they
although they may find something they
want to do
if they are there with a sibling but
primarily for
the two to five year old age group okay
we have um
catalog cuts that we can get to you
easily all right so for
for older children we’re really looking
at something that’s
larger and more extensive that may
already be in place at a county
playground
i see okay and there’s also the swings
and some tot lots there are space to do
a climbing structure
and then we also consider what we call
play fields that are adjacent to the top
lots
as part of that top lot too and those
are not
areas that we want to let grow up into
meadows or
or reforestation sites we want to
preserve them
as play fields when i take my four kids
to the playground
you know there’s some playing on the
little structures and then me and my
older
kids are kicking a soccer ball or
throwing a football and utilizing the
whole area so i think
frisbee right yeah that’s great
okay thank you uh lakey then alan then
ginny
um i just wanted to follow up that i
think the big
request in front of the board is the
process piece more than anything so i
guess similar to what renee said about
i think criteria we can continue to be
more detailed on that but
um staff had really worked to kind of
flush that out
one of the things i just did want to
make clear and dennis said it early on
is that there has not really been a
program or process around tot lots it
has been ad hoc
you know for over 50 years
so this is meant to be a step towards
wrapping a process around it
but some of the questions that have come

27
02:10:00.000 –> 02:15:00.000
up i think actually bring up
a much bigger landscape that does need
to be discussed which is
are we offering it from multiple ages
how would we go about doing that the
cost
is very different it would necessitate
taking something off the maintenance
side right pulling some offline
in order to reallocate that funding not
just from a capital investment
standpoint as we talked about earlier
but also from an operating cost so i
think that is a bigger
conversation but this is really a step
to get us towards having a process that
staff
can administer and hopefully we can get
most of
the uh replacement through that process
and it would
really be a rare exception that
um something would be outside of that
cost structure that’s kind of the
the hope for being able to maintain it
over time okay uh we’re out of time so
alan if you could be quick
i’m really appreciating the policy and
the specific policy and the idea of
having a policy i would
also like to see and i think the last
conversation
touched on it um some flexibility
and intention to see where there are
multiple top lots really near each other
and there’s this proper kind of space to
think of
rather than duplicating the same tot lot
multiple times in the same footprint
but think of different things maybe a
little bit different age range
so that we’re thinking a little more
holistically rather than
simply tot locked by todd lot okay jenny
and then jess and then we’re wrapping up
okay real quick um the staff actually
for the benefit of some of the board
members here the staff
dennis’s staff have actually done a
study of oakland mills that this board
authorized as a pilot
and one recommendation was for example
one title
be closed that was just in a really bad
location not really used by kids but
used by uh other significant others
selling
you know what drugs um so they came in
actually with a proposal to not only
close it but
uh what you could do with that like a
pollinator garden etc
and it really went over very well with
the board so
it’s not like we’re going to the ca
staff i think is saying close the dot
lot and forget about it
they come in with constructive working
with the board constructive alternatives
so i see it as very positive process um
jess yeah um quick question
for dennis and nicholas there’s nothing
mentioned
in here about sandboxes and i’m
wondering if there is a plan
to just start eliminating sand boxes
as top lots are replaced
and i do have a second question i guess
my second question is more of a comment
i’ve never known a kid that has enjoyed
a spring animal other
you know they just hit their head on
them and get hurt so i would encourage
if there’s
any other alternative i know i’ve seen
in some top lots like the plastic
cars that will hold two kids i know they
take up a little more room but
i sort of feel like a spring animal is
just a throwaway of space
um but i am curious about the sandbox
things because i have heard several
complaints about that
so we are definitely phasing out
sandboxes and when we have had critter
cams
on our tot lots the most activity in the
sandbox
is from uh critters
and um they’re not doing good things in
the sandboxes
so we are definitely definitely phasing
them out turn off devices
[Music]
all right thank you everyone thank you
dennis thank you nick
a lot of food for thought and we will
get this on an agenda
um
at the next psc meeting
hey janet i would just like to make a
quick point of order
i’d like to see us find a better way to
ensure that
everybody who wants to speak has the
opportunity where there seems to be
several people who speak multiple times
on an issue
and i feel like we had talked about
having something where everybody had the
opportunity to speak first
then people could speak again so just
something
people don’t raise their hand to speak
then continue letting people speak
if somebody else would like to manage
that process i’m all for it
okay it’s very difficult to keep track
of who hasn’t spoken so
anyone who hasn’t spoken what i would
encourage you to do is
wave your arm the amount frantically
yeah
well because jess you actually sit there
and play with your ring like this

28
02:15:00.000 –> 02:20:00.000
and so i never know if you’re waving to
be called
i can play well my hand gets tired
if i hold it up like this for 15 minutes
you don’t need to hold it up the whole
time just i
if i don’t like if your hands just like
this i’m not sure if you actually have
your hand up
or not so um but yes
i’m open to suggestions but it is
difficult to manage all of those pieces
i would just
encourage the people to are speaking
multiple times that maybe you should
wait and let other people have the
opportunity to speak
before chiming in a second time on the
same topic
some of us take a few minutes to gather
our thoughts before we are ready to
speak on an issue
thank you all right that is the end of
our agenda for
tonight may i have a motion to adjourn
jenny moves dick seconds any objections
no excellent
meeting concluded
you

Howard County Planning Board July 22, 2021

HOWARD COUNTY PLANNING BOARD
JULY 22, 2021

Transcript Generated From Youtube

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00:00:00.000 –> 00:02:00.000
i will never do it that well again
and we are good we’re up okay
welcome to the july 22nd 2021 howard
county planning board meeting
since this is a virtual meeting if
you’re providing testimony
please speak clearly into your phone or
computer microphone
please refrain from using the chat
feature if you’re experiencing technical
issues
you may send an email to planning board
at howardcountymd.gov and that is
monitored during this meeting
everybody please mute yourselves when
you’re not talking
and do i hear a motion to approve the
minutes of the past meeting
i move that we approve the minutes from
the
past virtual meeting thank you thank you
kevin second
second thank you cody all in favor
aye aye um i think that’s everybody
um and so tonight we’ll begin with stp
21-001 mangione enterprises and we’ll
begin with this staff presentation
thank you mr chairman
i will um share a powerpoint
presentation with you
with the board as soon as i can get it
up here
coming through just fine uh good evening
my name is nicholas haynes i’m a planner
with howard county department of
planning zoning
in the division of land development i’m

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00:02:00.000 –> 00:04:00.000
here to present site development plan
twenty one zero zero one uh it’s a site
development plan for the villa
apartments at turf valley the applicant
is seeking approval of the site
development plan for proposed
residential buildings and associated
site improvements
this is planning board approval is
required in accordance with section
126 h1 of the howard county zoning
regulations
the villa apartments at turf valley
includes the two parcels
shown here highlighted in red which
border along mount villa parkway south
of resort road
the site development plan for the board
this evening is for
five proposed apartment buildings uh
containing 192 units total
and a clubhouse structure uh on parcels
b1 and e1
which total 14.186 acres
the proposed buildings will complete the
build-out on the
of the two proposed parcels uh currently
today there are three existing apartment
buildings
located on the property which were
constructed under site development plans
9480
and 98 148 which were previously
reviewed and approved by the planning
board
i have an aerial view of the project
area here that shows the
three existing apartment structures
located on the northern section of the
property
as i mentioned these were constructed in
the previous site development plans
in 94 and 98. uh the remainder of the
property uh to the south remains in its
uh
basically undisturbed state it contains
uh forest resources
and lawn the property sits snugly
between the
the existing turf valley golf course
clubhouse and resort
and the caperton village development
which is currently
being worked on today i have another
just sort of more zoomed out aerial uh
it’ll shows the
rough outlines of the property
boundaries just to sort of give you
the boards a better spatial
understanding of where this project is
located
the project does have access to both
mount villa parkway

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00:04:00.000 –> 00:06:00.000
and turf valley golf road
i have the rendered site development
plan here
the proposed improvements highlighted
the buildings shown in pink are the
proposed apartments to be added to the
site and the yellow
separate yellow structure is the
proposed clubhouse
with the proposed parking areas
generally located towards the center of
the property
and with internal garages inside the
apartment structures
uh the first site development plan sheet
here has the uh
base overall data uh for the project as
i mentioned they’re five
uh the five proposed apartment buildings
will have a combined total of 192 units
um and they’ll have direct access to
both bambilla parkway and clubhouse road
the next slide i have this is a zoomed
in
view of the northern portion of the site
development plan
on the northern northernmost side here
is located building number five
this is a smaller structure compared to
the other four apartments
it has roughly 13 000 square foot
footprint and contains 32
of the proposed units
the clubhouse located across the
proposed parking area
uh roughly seven thousand square foot
structure
parking for the apartment building uh
there’s an internal
23 space parking garage and the
remainder will
utilize the shared parking parking lots
located throughout the property
next slide i have here this is the
southern portion with apartment
buildings one through four
which are slightly larger in size they
have roughly 16 000 square foot
footprints
uh and internal excuse me internal 30
space parking garages
as i mentioned before the rest of the
parking is utilized through shared
shared shared parking areas located
towards the center of the property
profited by the existing structures
this slide also shows the access to

4
00:06:00.000 –> 00:08:00.000
mount villa parkway
located here in between buildings one
and two
this side is landscape the
landscape plan sheet one which has the
overall landscape
proposed landscape plan for the project
there are shade trees proposed in the
parking areas and provided islands
as well as accent plantings along the
borders of the buildings
and as well as along the property
boundaries to provide both screening
from the neighboring properties
and to accentuate the street trees that
are being provided along mount villa
parkway
last slide i have for you here design
wise
has the front elevations for the
proposed apartments
this will help illustrate the proposed
character
and architectural that we carry
throughout the general development
this really concludes my portion of the
the presentation um as provided in the
technical staff report i have the
planning board criteria for your review
here
um but i would like to also open up the
floor to mr david thompson from
benchmark engineering
and mr lewis mangione who is the
developer of the project they may be
able to
provide some more intricate detail if
the planning board would like
but i would be happy to answer any
questions the board may have
thank you does anybody have questions at
this time or you want to wait until
after the petitioner
i did have just one question if i may
please
the information is that uh
specific to a particular resident or
user
as opposed to the shared parking um i
believe the garages
within the apartment structures
themselves are they’re dedicated for
residents within those buildings as far
as the overall parking goes
it’s really shared throughout the entire

5
00:08:00.000 –> 00:10:00.000
development and that includes the
existing apartments
thank you
thank you um anybody else uh ed i had
one question
um i was looking i was looking for this
and i wasn’t sure if i saw it
it’s mostly vegetation on that hillside
uh that’s all pre-approved though as far
as this development
that land was pre-approved to be built
on
uh no concerns about what’s being
removed
yes sir um the turf valley project
um as far as i mean as far as
um forest conservation um goes this was
all planned out with the submission of
of the sketch plans um
but i mean technically the project is
exempt
as it’s a planned unit development prior
to 92 but
but the overall the overall
uh property as far as this goes as yes
it has been
uh prepared for thank you very much yes
sir that’s it
that’s all i had um ed
thank you erica
i will wait for the picture okay
so i um would the petitioner please
proceed
uh is that me
is that me can everybody hear me
okay yeah this is uh this is dave
thompson i’m
with benchmark engineering so we’re the
civil engineers on this project for
mr mangione um i just had a couple
small additional points i wanted to make

6
00:10:00.000 –> 00:12:00.000
um i think the technical staff report
was
and nick was was pretty thorough um
just real quick about the environmental
uh
question that was brought up yeah if
this turf valley in the pgcc zone is
exempt from forest conservation act
and there are no other environmental
features on the site and there’s no
wetland streams buffers
and there’s no steep slopes with a 20
000
square foot contiguous area that’s being
disturbed by this development
um one of the
one of the things i saw on the technical
staff report that wasn’t mentioned but
it’s in the writing
was it talks about commercial retail and
commercial
sales that’s actually not accurate
the the building that we’re calling
sales fitness
is is the sales is really more of a
leasing
uh sales it has a that building has a
um a mock unit of an apartment where the
lease in the leasing office is going to
be there so they can show potential
uh renters what a typical apartment
looks like
there’s no retail or sales and i think
going on there i just wanted to
kind of clear that up um
[Music]
and i also just wanted to mention that
we are
we’re actually showing a proposed
pathway
between the southernmost existing
structure apartment building and i think
building four of us it takes
that pathway goes down to the hotel
complex and we’re putting that pathway
in there to try to keep people
for anybody in this community or even
existing buildings
to be able to utilize that path in order
to get down to
the hotel and resort without actually
having to walk
out along the road turf valley golf road

7
00:12:00.000 –> 00:14:00.000
which is
a small private road that runs along the
northern portion of the site we’re
trying to keep pedestrians and traffic
not traffic pedestrians and walkers
off that road so that’s why we’re
constructing this pathway there
i just kind of wanted to point that out
um
but other than that i don’t really have
anything additional to add um i think
it’s pretty
pretty self-explanatory what’s going on
but i’ll be happy to ask
answer any other questions the panel has
thank you does anybody have any
questions tooty
i just i have one quick question um just
for the record are there any mihu’s uh
designated
in these buildings
no we’re uh turf valley is exempt from
an ihe requirement
thank you
kevin
um
i believe at this point
yeah i i believe everything um
is very clear very clear thank you
thank you
yes get some clarification in terms of
parking um where would the designated
accessibility be based on these units
so they are they’re actually shown on
the plan they’re actually right
in the center front of the buildings um
each building has um
three each building has three spaces
right out in the front
center of the building there’s also
space within the parking garage
four of each building and there’s also
spaces in front of the sales fitness
center i think there’s two spaces there

8
00:14:00.000 –> 00:16:00.000
uh
yeah there’s two spaces in front of the
sales fitness building
so i’m sorry i was hard for me to read
so each unit
would have three spaces for handicap
accessibility correct each building yes
has three
spaces in the front yes plus one
in the garage
in the garage only one space in the
garage
that’s uh correct
okay thank you and my other
question is just better just to help
explain a little bit more as we’re
looking at
you know the buffering of this versus
the other unit what are we
looking at um for the buffering around
the units
for the buffering between the internal
units
or between adjacent properties um
both well the
the only immediate adjacent property is
to the east which is the hotel and
resort which is where that hill is and
we’re
we’re actually not tearing all those
trees down along that hill there’ll be a
buffer of existing
trees there between buildings three and
four
and the hotel parking lot okay
between each building within the project
we do have shade trees based on the
landscaping obligation of the landscape
manual
you can kind of see there’s a planet
nick has up now you can kind of see like
the two bottom buildings are three and
four
and you can see we got like the five
shade trees between those two buildings
there

9
00:16:00.000 –> 00:18:00.000
and then like yeah thank you
thank you anybody else
i don’t have any questions at this time
um
lisa is there anybody signed up to
testify
i don’t have anybody for this particular
case that but i do
have a couple of calling users
um
okay if you’re calling user i unmuted
you if you could state your name
if you’re a call-in user can you state
your name
uh okay i’m not getting it one of them
hung up i don’t
know the other one’s not answering so
okay and miss
yep that’s it okay and the petition
dress and
the petitioner is finished you don’t
have anything more
uh yeah i’m i don’t have anything else
to to address
okay thank you would somebody like to
make a motion to go to work session
i have a question first before we do
that
if i may please yes yes i guess this is
for mr haynes
um is it to code or uh for
talk to us um i do find it a little
strange that there’s only one space
in the garage for handicap uh
and appreciate that question
is there is that a minimum requirement
that you have
there for one space in the garage

10
00:18:00.000 –> 00:20:00.000
ma’am so uh we have an overall uh
parking requirement
um as far as uh as far as the site goes
so we base our parking based on the uses
provided on site
um each each apartment generates you
know a certain number and
and the applicant’s required to meet
that total number of spaces
now with of those provided spaces
of the uh
ada um requires a ver a certain number
of
handicapped spaces um which is
controlled by really by honestly
licensing and permitting um it’s based i
believe it’s based on
each um each building
mr thompson may be able to um elaborate
a little bit further he may be a little
bit more familiar with
specifically what the ada requirements
um for each building are but
um thank you yeah i can elaborate if i’m
still on media i can elaborate on that a
little bit
if you guys can still hear me yes we can
hear you okay
okay yeah so there’s
based on the 2010 uh ada manual
american disabilities act manual we’re
required
the number of ada spaces is based on the
number of
of regular parking spaces required for
each building
and we have a chart on the cover sheet
of the sdp so basically each building is
required
four uh ada spaces
um and so we’ve we’ve met the four per
building by putting three
on the outside and one in the garage
level
understood thank you
thank you any other questions phil i
just thought of something
please go ahead certainly i did want to
ask
um the

11
00:20:00.000 –> 00:22:00.000
[Music]
the location is uh high above
the rest of the area uh the
grocery store and and restaurants and
things are down the hill
i was just wondering uh since these are
apartments there’s going to be
a lot more individuals
utilizing the walkways and paths and so
on and so forth
i was just curious as far as the
simplest way for those folks to get to
the grocery store
if they did not want to take their car
so i i can answer that um so the grocery
store in the shopping center
is actually farther west
from the site it’s on the other side of
that caperton
uh subdivision i guess in the plan
that’s up now the existing aerial
um the shopping center is all the way on
the far left of that page
and our site is more centered um
so i i believe there is an ultimate
pathway being constructed on other plans
there’s other development going on the
caperton plans
and there’s another development adjacent
to caperton
that a path system or pathway is to be
constructed under those
so it is possible for residents of this
development
to cross mount villa parkway and utilize
that path system
over to that shopping center so they
would not have to walk along resort road
great i was going to say it’s fairly
narrow and
for bicyclists and for pedestrians
people pushing strollers not that
convenient
all right as long as it’s being thought
of that’s great thank you very much
thank you
would someone would like to make a
motion

12
00:22:00.000 –> 00:24:00.000
i move we go into work session thank you
kevin
what’s up thank you tooty all those in
favor
aye aye okay we’re now in work session
um kevin would you like to start
uh yes the plans were very very thorough
uh the
information that was provided to us uh
gave
enough information it it truly seems uh
that this particular apartment section
uh was already pre-planned
uh putting in the three buildings and uh
the additional space
is there they’re not uh
disrupting forests and so on so
uh i i have no problems with this
particular
plan it looks like it’s well thought out
thank you kevin uh erica
uh taking a look at the criteria i do
feel
uh pretty good with um the plan that’s
been laid before me
i will address though um
terms of parking as one of the
credentials and i know we have
you know there’s different parameters i
am still a little concerned about the
limited
handicapped parking if that even could
be
put into you know some type of
mo in the motion or something like that
just especially with the garage just to
have
one it’s just of concern
other than that i feel pretty good based
on the criteria
okay thank you tutti
i i uh believe that the project should
certainly move forward um
but i do agree uh mr roberts that
i i don’t if it’s at all possible uh we
might make the suggestion as it moves
forward

13
00:24:00.000 –> 00:26:00.000
that there should be maybe a realignment
of the handicapped parking
under the garage uh realizing their
limited spaces per
unit apartment building um
maybe just adjust the numbers and have
one or two more
spaces available under the in in the
garage would be my
suggestion as well
okay thank you um
kevin do you have anything else uh that
is it
um erica would you like to make a motion
i’m sorry and because this is a
continuation of other plans that we have
seen
um and the material that’s presented
it’s in line
with with the the regulations that we’ve
seen and
and so i have no issues so um
erica if you’d like to make a motion
sure mr coleman
i motioned that we approve stp 21001
um as presented with uh
thought in terms of reevaluation
of addition a few additional parking
spaces
in the garage handicapped spots in the
garage
thank you handicap parking spaces in the
garage
or is is actually accessible is
accessible the correct term now
well i think we want to be clear that
we’re talk we’re not asking for more
than the four required
but we would ask that perhaps they give
consideration to adjusting the number
in the garage increasing the numbers
yeah terrific so the motion would be to
approve the stp
and have them evaluate putting more
accessible parking
in the parking garage no just more
not over and above the four spaces just

14
00:26:00.000 –> 00:28:00.000
giving consideration adding the four
spaces adding more
in the garage
okay i thought that’s what i said
um can we have a second
second thank you kevin all in favor aye
aye
aye okay so it passes unanimously
and then next on our agenda is um
vapolon it’s zb
one two one one two seven m maple on
farms
and this is a continuation from the july
8th meet at july 8th meeting
and we’re going to start with testimony
um
the i just wanted to make the
distinction
that um the type of meetings that are
prescribed
um this this is a meeting and not a
hearing
and the time limits though apply to
meetings um
we have to abide by and the type of
meeting is actually specified
in the zoning regulations and then if
you look at the agenda
it also says that this falls under
section 1.108 of our rules or procedures
and what our role here is tonight is
we’re making
a recommendation to the zoning board so
it’s an advisory role and under the
rules of
procedures section 1.108 and each
speaker when your name is called
um please state your name and your
address
for the record um but because you’re
providing testimony you’re not actually
being sworn in
um and testimony differs a little bit in
evidence
um that would fall under if this was a
different meeting type
so with that i think we’re ready to
begin and
does anybody else have comments that any
other board members have comments before

15
00:28:00.000 –> 00:30:00.000
we start
no thank you mr coleman okay thank you
um lisa
okay so we have mr
[Music]
macy nelson
i guess i’m here okay uh if you could
just state your name and address and
i’ll get the timer up on the screen
okay thank you very much nelson
councillor homeowners association
offices in towson maryland if i just
could take a moment before i begin my
comments
about the comments about the time
limitations
i reviewed the rules uh and i saw no
time limit in the rules that the chairs
cited
and my clients object to the uh strict
uh time limits because the applicant had
absolutely no
location on their time so we would uh
urge the
the the the planning board uh to uh
keep an open mind on the time of the
time issue
but we won’t be long but many committed
clients
uh who are trying to communicate their
views to the board about
this important case
i’ll be in um mike um my client my
clients are opposed
uh to the uh application the focus of my
uh comments will be on the
uh ppp history uh since 1998
other representatives of the apa will
address
other issues but this story begins of
course as we know in 1998 let me just
say
that i introduced 11

16
00:30:00.000 –> 00:32:00.000
electronics
is
mr nelson i can can anyone else hear him
no he’s he’s coming in and out for me
he’s breaking up for me
same here is it possible to start over
because i could not hear anything he
said
i couldn’t either
but can i uh just check one thing on my
internet that
i’ve had hearings at this uh location
many many times without difficult let me
check one thing please i apologize
i don’t know if it’s in my years
so unfortunately that bit came in nice
and clear
kenny is this better or is it
uh well i heard that part
would you like to try and call in to
make it so it would be
clearer or
i’m after that if you think that
what number

17
00:32:00.000 –> 00:34:00.000
what number do you want me to call i
think it would be better it wouldn’t
break
i’m sure it would be a smoother i’m
happy to call i just need the phone
number i haven’t if you could give that
number to me i’ll call right now
it’s six five zero four seven
nine three
two zero seven
and your access code is one seven
two 9 0
7 3 9
5 5.
i’ll do that now okay thank you
um in the mean time did you want to move
on to other people
now let’s give them a minute this hoa
had requested kind of an
order um let’s see if we can’t
accommodate that
sure and if he’s still listening those
numbers
are available on the website um
under the planning board page or tab
they are and actually i’m monitoring
this to see if i get a new call-in user
in
so i can i usually can see it right away
enter your attendee id number followed
by pound
not know your attending number
uh if that’s him he’s gonna have to
mute one of his mics mr mr macy can you
please meet your
um computer i just
just muted it

18
00:34:00.000 –> 00:36:00.000
and you might want to take your phone
off speaker
say that one more time macy nelson
speaking
so that’s much better yes
all right i’m hearing feedback from my
computer
i’m going to disconnect temporarily
sure
all right folks sorry for those
technical difficulties i’m not sure why
that occurred this the first time that’s
happened uh
uh macy nelson he’s on council for the
movement
homeowners association uh thank you for
allowing me to address the board tonight
and i apologize for the
uh technical difficulties uh we want to
object
on the time limit the rules don’t
require a limitation that the board has
discretion in the board of posts no
limitations on
i’m sorry i’m not able to hear him and
my speaker is up as loud as it goes
anybody else difficulty
uh during the course is he talking mr
nelson can you
turn up the volume on your phone and
apply for a preliminary development plan
for the mxc
district the applicant saw it in overall
mr nelson we’re not hearing
um
the renderings have described the 32

19
00:36:00.000 –> 00:38:00.000
large blocks
in the old farm district as
mr nelson we cannot hear you like on
nature
i feel bad about continuing because i
have not heard the beginning
of his testimony or his presentation to
even
continue
per acre
density will be more compatible
the um who is the president of the hoa
that is aaron can you
unmute him
hi this is aaron costa grande i’m
actually trying i’m texting macy i’m
trying to give him a phone call and i
shot him an email as well
that’s where i was going i was hoping
you had a way to a second channel to
contact him
yeah i’m not sure if he’s put his phone
down while he’s
speaking yeah i’m not sure he’s speaking
close enough to the microphone
but if it’s if it’s technical issues are
you familiar with the pro
with the material that that he’s going
to talk about
um such that you could cover it for him
no i’m i’m not i generally he is going
to speak about the history of the
this case and and the land use
applications for this property
the homeowners and i was going to lead
off the homeowner group of speakers
relating to you know our concerns about
the development and how it impacts the
community today

20
00:38:00.000 –> 00:40:00.000
but maybe if we move to the homeowner
speakers we can
get macy in a position where he’s able
to get to a better connection
um okay
so would would you have been the second
speaker on the list
i would have been the third but i think
we could um move
through everyone else and then go back
to the first two
okay um lisa do you follow and are you
okay with that
so aaron i’m starting under you so i’m
starting with paul
no i would start with uh me um okay
ruth grover so i would i would pull macy
and ruse ruth grover to the very end
okay um in that case
you are up if you want to state your
name and address
sure my name is aaron casagrande and my
address is one
one four four four jager boulevard
fulton maryland okay
all right good evening planning board
members apologize for the technical
difficulty with our council but
hopefully we’ll get him on soon
i’m fortunate to call myself a resident
of maple on since 2011.
i’ve been a member of the board since
2015 and i currently serve as its
president
at the outset i’d like to categorically
reject the assertion by the developer
two weeks ago that the hoa is
anti-development to the contrary we’re
in favor of the development of this
parcel that’s planned in a smart
comprehensive manner
that does not negatively impact our
existing community
as such the extent the planning board’s
inclined to recommend approval of this
petition
the hoa asks the recommendation of
approval come with conditions
the hoas han organized a handful of
speakers this evening
to discuss several thematic issues that
we see with the musician
the residents that will speak tonight
have lived in the community for a

21
00:40:00.000 –> 00:42:00.000
cumulative
more than 60 years i would posit that
our residents are more attuned to the
community its pluses and minuses
than the speakers from two weeks ago
none of whom have ever lived in our
community
notably during the presentation a
section of our community was
misidentified in aerial photo
there was mention of fireworks that have
not occurred for several years after the
developer cancelled them
and non-existent soccer and lacrosse
polls that were never installed
with respect to our speakers robert
greenberger will speak to pedestrian
safety and traffic concerns
that the community has brought to the
county’s attention for years paul mavro
mulhollas will speak to the hoa’s
engagement with the county
regarding the transportation demand
management program since 2015
and the developer’s passing current
refusal to do the same
steve poojack tiffany gilliard and anne
franklin will speak to how the proposal
will impact the day-to-day lives of our
residents and josh zucker will provide
some thoughts and comments on the
commercial portion of the development
and the lack of its integration with the
existing community
with my remaining time i would like to
address concerns about how
maple on west would overstretch our
amenities
in short the initial amenities installed
by the developer were not sufficient to
accommodate
our 1308 households maple lawn was
designed to have 1340 homes
and we currently have 1308 by 2013 it
was obvious the expansion of our
infrastructure was required
the number of substantial projects
followed all paid by our homeowners
in 2014 a million dollars was spent to
double the size of our fitness center
a few years ago we undertook plans to
install additional sports courts at a
cost of more than three hundred thousand
dollars
recently the hoa completed a seven
hundred thousand dollar project
expanding the bathroom facilities
for a pool and fitness center that were
insufficiently planned
again all this was done to address
current demand from 1308 households
our homeowners do not want to foot the
bill a second time for insufficient
infrastructure
in some a drastic amendment to a primary

22
00:42:00.000 –> 00:44:00.000
development plan that increases density
from 32 to 505 units needs to be
carefully considered
the hoa asks that if the planning board
recommends approval one of the
conditions opposed is that maple law and
west cannot be developed as part of the
existing community
unless the developer and the hoa reach
an agreement on the plan to integrate
the two communities thank you for your
time and consideration
okay so next we have paul and i
apologize paul i cannot pronounce your
last name
so just bear with me a moment
okay paul can you hear me yes no problem
and you’re not the first and you won’t
be the last
okay um if you go ahead and state your
name and address
surely let me um pull this up real quick
um my name is paul mavromahalas and i
live at 11371
yeager boulevard unit 2. i’ve been a
resident of maple lawn since 2008
and also a member of the hoa board since
2018 serving as treasurer
um you were planned to have heard
testimony on why the hoa doesn’t believe
you should recommend approval of the
petition
in its current form or if you’re so
inclined
a recommendation to modify that approval
but with enforceable conditions now i’d
like to speak briefly
about the maple lawn hoas engagement
since 2015
with howard county transportation
department transportation
and the transportation demand management
program
which is commonly referred to as the
tdmp
and the developer’s past and current
refusal to do the same
now this is important to our community
because of the value we place on the
original
vision of maple lawn which was a fully
integrated residential and commercial
community and it demonstrates our
concern that the developer
uh about being able to deliver on his

23
00:44:00.000 –> 00:46:00.000
commitments and legal obligations in the
spirit of good faith and cooperation
that’s needed to live up to this
potential and goal
to complete this maple long vision as
you heard in testimony
several weeks ago a brief brief break
excuse me background
uh the howard county zoning board
originally approved in 2000
uh it included a provision requiring a
tdmp
plan for the development of the property
uh the primary goal of tdmp is to reduce
four-wheel vehicular traffic
in the maple lawn community as a whole
through a funding mechanism from the
developer
now the petition before you the
developer references a tdp
plan and the importance of collecting
funds
however i’d like to bring your attention
to a letter that’s included in
attachment one and dated march 17th of
this year
it’s from the howard county office of
transportation to the petitioner or
developer
and they’re requesting verification on
the amount of tdm
funds collected from the commercial
portion of the development
an itemized list of those expenditures
and
any requirements that he’s completed
the response was requested by april 17th
to my knowledge as today over three
months have
gone by of that requested date and the
developer
has failed to respond the reason this is
important because some estimates of the
total funds to date
that the developer should have collected
exceeds seven
figures of unspent funds for tdm
improvements agreed to in the initial
approval back in 2000
um there we have evidence of uh in 2013
a letter uh to the director of finance
where the developer states he’s
currently
collecting 10 cents a square foot for
each home and 30
uh per household in
the escrow account and um
since 2015 we became uh responsible for

24
00:46:00.000 –> 00:48:00.000
the um
uh the portion of those fees we had to
create our own
uh escrow account that was segregated
and had to collect
uh identifying collections from the
entirety
anyway since that time the hoas
coordinated with the county
um for our requirements we continue to
collect the funds annually
and we’ve used these funds to repair and
maintain our walking paths
and the past to the school campus which
has been very important
um and just recently um our board has
approved twenty thousand dollars of that
money
to initiate a pathway master plan uh
which we would like to reach out
shortly with the developer and hopefully
he’ll partner with us to share those
costs
during the same time period our hoa
and the department of transportation
have reached out to the developer
and proposed multiple partnering
projects that would be mutually
beneficial
to both the commercial residential by
increasing and encouraging
non-vehicular visits to the commercial
district
we’re trying to come up with win-win and
when we’ve reached out with these
letters we get no response
just like reached out to restore the
fireworks that were previously mentioned
uh and it just fallen upon deaf ears
thank you okay um
do you have a final thought yes it’s
just
again to um um
to require that they spend the tdm funds
and that you need to trust and verify
and that
um as part of his plan
he should integrate the commercial
district and the two residential
districts
with that expanded proposed pathway that
is in his plan
that talks about multi-use pathways that
are i believe 10 feet wide to their
current standards and the like
because we have a robust design thank
you thank you
thank you next please

25
00:48:00.000 –> 00:50:00.000
robert greenberg
hi good evening robert greenberger one
one
four one four jager boulevard
so as an eight year resident of maple
lawn and former hoa president
i’ve watched the community grow and
appreciate the careful manner in which
this has occurred the current plan under
consideration appears designed to
disrupt that
carefulness i propose the five-phase
plan be revised
to prioritize constructing maple lawn
west via 216
and not jaeger and federal streets
as proposed phases one and two will
utilize the existing community
to begin the construction of maple one
west the county’s estimates
suggest up to a thousand new daily trips
from federal
to jaeger without a second access point
to route 216.
md216 is refer referenced repeatedly
as a minor arterial but it has grown in
importance given the traffic volume from
recent editions of maple on south
and sunflowers of lisbon additionally
there are proposed development
along 216 from maux charlestown
the property opposite the entrance to
the commercial district
and an additional 290 units adjacent to
maple on west
despite mr cornelius’s assertions
previously the road cannot support the
extra volume without causing
serious backups at the beginning and end
of the work day
frankly a far more comprehensive traffic
plan for the entire 216 corridor
needs to be prepared before
groundbreaking on any of these projects
further a district engineer at the state
department of transportation sent a
series of corrections to mr cornelius’s
projections
none of which were shared two weeks ago
creating a false impression
they also asked that the roundabout
intersections located at the
us-29 and md 216 interchange
be added to the list of intersections
that should be analyzed in future
adequate public

26
00:50:00.000 –> 00:52:00.000
facilities traffic studies even the
state feels something far more
comprehensive needs to be done
therefore work on 216 and accessing
nipple on west should be done in concert
benefiting all stakeholders
without jamming additional vehicular
traffic into the existing community
phase one therefore should slide later
in the construction process
meantime jager where i live is already a
major artery in the community and the
only current access to the garden
district
this is a heavily walked stretch
considering the path to the schools is
accessed from this street
the notion of adding construction
vehicles and other traffic appears
unnecessarily disruptive bringing
unwelcome volume
noise and dust jaeger has already been a
concern raised before the traffic
department
when i joined the hoa board of directors
i began campaigning for additional
traffic calming solutions to jager
until we were fully built out they were
reluctant but have recently promised a
speed study after things
quote return to normal unquote
mitigation must occur
before volume increases there are no
stop signs for half a mile
from liberty and jager to federal in
yeager with speeding as a result making
it hazardous for pedestrians and bikers
thank you for your time and attention
thank you
next please
so next would be stephen puchak
mr pugh can you hear me can yes can you
hear me now
i can can you just state your name and
address okay
yes steven pooja to live at 7518
carpenter street
and before i just get started i want to
make sure i had submitted a written
testimony that was
an individual testimony uh i apologize
for it flight but it did have a number
of very important points i wanted to
make
what i am speaking for today is for the
maple one hoa group and
they should be considered separately

27
00:52:00.000 –> 00:54:00.000
check
yes
excellent okay thank you i just want to
make sure that i’m i’m keeping my ducks
in a row
uh my name is stephen puck i led the
maple on school unity action group
during the most recent https
redistricting
i’ve provided deeper while https has
provided comments they only stated what
the current situation is
not what the impact 505 added housing
units will have
on school over capacity for the 2021
feasibility study
holton elementary will continue to
reduce capacity to 719 students in 2021.
even with the conservative apple rated
capacity of 757
bolton is projected to be to be above
113
capacity lime kiln will inherit this
overcapacity when the proposed
development starts
reservoirs currently and projected to be
one of the most overcrowded high schools
in howard county
i understand that these are hcps issues
and redistricting from their schools
should alleviate this
but it will not be enough the fiscal
impact analysis provides student yields
for new housing
but even dr chau wu and vikki cotranio
of the board of education
have done research indicating this
wildly underestimates student yields
even with the underestimated student
yields fulton will be over 125 percent
and reservoir over 130 hcpss alone
cannot mitigate this
they need the planning and zoning boards
to preempt this
by tempering the petitioner’s desires
and requests for excessively high
diversity development
the petitioner testified that they care
about the community however during
redistricting the petitioner refused to
support the maple on residents desire to
remain
one community our group reached out to
the petitioner
and the reported response was this was a
quote no win situation
and that the petitioner was concerned
with quote getting burned
at the least this brings into question

28
00:54:00.000 –> 00:56:00.000
their commitment to the actual maple law
community
and illustrates that this is more about
maximizing revenue
regardless of the impact of the
community or howard county
i feel it is well within the board’s
purview to consider the multiple other
developments in the area
milk producers paddock point maple on
south
all alone will add over 1500
housing units to the southeast this
petition is requesting a more than
33 percent increase for a total of more
than 2
000 housing units this is an untenable
number of students
to add to an area where no additional
school sites exist
even with redistricting at the most the
petitioner should be reducing the
exceptionally high density in this
petition
taken by district midtown west has 4.95
units per net residential acre
while garden has 3.76 the petition is
calling for 6.45
units per net acre the petitioner
petition density is excessive
and despite the petitioner’s claim fully
debunked in my other written testimony
this is clearly high density reducing
the density is the least the planning
board should require
to alleviate the school capacity issues
in the coming decade
there are major factual and numerical
errors and discrepancies within this
petition
and this planning board should reject it
as written the area will be developed i
understand that
but without major or proper
contingencies conditions
and provisions the position as it stands
will create
major issues for the county for years to
come i
urge you to require them to change the
petition
thank you thank you next please
uh tiffany
tiffany gilliard i’m here
okay if you could state your name and
address please yes tiffany gilliard
7819 early morning street
fulton maryland 2075

29
00:56:00.000 –> 00:58:00.000
okay good evening i’m tiffany gilliard
my family and i have been residents of
maple lawn since 2019.
maple lawn appealed to us because of the
diversity the quality of life and the
close community feel
as parents of a rising kindergartner my
husband and i made the calculated move
to a county that was lauded for the
stellar public education offered
we did our research and we were
impressed that almost 60 percent of the
county budget was
allocated for education we believe that
we had discovered
the unicorn of livable communities with
the neighborhood elementary school just
blocks away
we bought bikes and enjoyed parking our
cars and pedaling to the grocery store
music lessons and family dinners at
nearby restaurants
we look forward to the day when our son
could ride his bike to school
and then we met the registrar at fulton
elementary who hastily told us that she
was a bit stressed because there were so
many new students
we spoke with the incoming principal who
shared that the class assignments were
pending because they were adding another
kindergarten class to accommodate the
amazing swell they were experiencing
and we chatted with neighbors who shared
that they were concerned about the
overcrowded middle and high schools
yet still we were excited while we were
a part of this swell of new residents
we were not pleased to know that our son
would be one of 100 kindergartners
his classroom alone had 24 students and
one teacher
i’d like to note that the national
average public school ratio
is 16 to 1. in the 2019-2020 school year
fulton elementary housed 1 000 students
maxing out the facilities and the
resources while attending a pta meeting
i learned that the annual school
programs had to be minimized in parent
involvement limited because of the over
capacity
it has been noted that the school is
already at maximum capacity
yet if the current proposal is proposed
is a pro is approved
they estimate it could add another 160
to the head count
students cannot adequately learn or be
prepared academically

30
00:58:00.000 –> 01:00:00.000
when teachers are pulled thin due to
sheer numbers
have you yourself ever been in a
classroom with 20 plus
six-year-olds this past academic year
we made the decision to move our child
into a private school
a school that resembles what fulton
elementary was just a few short years
ago
small to moderate class sizes community
engagement and blue ribbon academics
as you consider this proposal that has
increased from 32 homes to a total of
505
please consider the footprints that
increase as well like us
many of our neighbors are making the
financial sacrifice to move our children
to private schools
what the pandemic exposed is quality
education depends on an environment
conducive to learning
when schools are overcrowded and
resources are limited our children are
not in an environment that encourages
learning
i am appealing to you as a tax paying
homeowner we want our son to be
our neighborhood school making friends
and riding bikes safely
through streets unburdened by additional
traffic we want to enjoy the lifestyle
we were sold on when we moved to maple
lawn
i’m appealing to you to propose to not
accept the proposal in its current form
the difference between 32 and 473 homes
is significant
this is not about dollars and cents it’s
about families and our lives
thank you thank you next please
hi um sorry
i’m actually making you a presenter so
you can use your slides
okay great um and that’s
okay you can go ahead and see i see the
presenter up
i’m gonna use the slides when they come
naturally or should i just put them up
now i would put them up now just to have

31
01:00:00.000 –> 01:02:00.000
them up
uh then i well if i i’ll do up later
because then it’ll show
my speech rather than the slides because
that’s what i’m reading from oh okay
okay all right uh just go ahead and
state your name and address
okay uh my name is josh zucker 7665
midtown road
fulton maryland 20759 for five years i
served on this board
and for two years was its chairperson i
also happen to be the 90th resident of
maple lawn
i love living there except for college
and law school i’ve
always lived in howard county for the
past six years i’ve served on the county
spending affordability committee and for
the last few months i’ve worked on the
missing middle task force for the
county’s general plan
i understand development and housing
policy in this county
i understand we need it i understand we
need more of it i personally want more
development i love having new neighbors
i’m not here in any way to say not in my
backyard i’m here because i want to say
i want my backyard better
yes in my backyard in law school i lived
in a leafy urban neighborhood where i
didn’t need a car for anything
we moved to maple lawn for that reason i
wanted to come back to howard county and
live in a diverse walkable community
developed as a traditional neighborhood
as mr greenbaum said in his testimony
that was the promise of the maple lawn
it’s what was promised the county in
over 100 hours of testimony and months
of litigation
unfortunately what was envisioned by mr
green and belm’s father
and presented in his testimony last week
have not come to pass
let me show you just a couple slides
that i sent to the committee
to the board last week um this is
the one i don’t want to go through
everything because my time is limited
but i went back to 2015 basically
just looked at the amount of extra
parking in the business district
we literally have and just to that in
these five sdps over the last five years
built
an acre and a half of extra parking this
is all the parking this is the original

32
01:02:00.000 –> 01:04:00.000
um press release for maple lawn look at
all that parking look at all this
parking in our supposedly vibrant
walkable downtown again more parking
parking parking and this right here is
maple on boulevard where people
regularly go 45 miles an hour
even though it was set up or signed as
25 miles an hour
this is not walkable this is not
traditional neighborhood development
as i said at the outset i sat where you
sit so many times i was told that i had
to shelve my personal opinions on
development
and only judge based on the narrows of
criteria i was
cowed the problem is that was not true
in reality you serve on this board to
govern you have three options tonight in
sending this plan along
either approve it make a recommendation
for denial
or make a recommendation that it needs
to have massive change
at minimum this plan needs change i want
new neighbors in my community
i want mihu i want people and growth and
vibrancy
this plan will not get us there maple
lawn in fact falls far
far short of those goals it is not
walkable it is a missed opportunity
but most importantly maple lawn west is
the last
opportunity this county has to correct
the problems with this development do
not look at this development in just the
vacuum of maple lawn west
look at maple lawn it’s in its entirety
in fact that’s exactly what
mr oh and mr cole asked you to do last
week
if you’re going to do that if you’re
going to follow their instructions
then you must fix the problems of the
business district along with this plan
look at all the acres of asphalt look at
the vacant businesses
and the ever increasing vacant
storefronts look at the highway speeds
of cars down a walkable
quote boulevard none of this is tnd
all of it is base lowest common
denominator development that made a
walkable community into a mini mall

33
01:04:00.000 –> 01:06:00.000
do not miss the opportunity to have
maple lawn get back to its first
principles
the principles michael green and dumb
spoke about last week the same
principles his father wanted
this is the last and only chance to get
this right
and getting this right means not being a
rubber stamp for the current plan
thank you
um lisa can we go on the next
i but we have we have those slides as um
they were sent to us and
so um we will review them so thank you
um lisa okay next we have
ann franklin
i’m here can you hear me i can if you
take any
questions please all right anne franklin
my address is 11495
yeager boulevard fulton maryland two
zero seven five nine
um good evening i am a longtime resident
of howard county
the past eight years living here in
maple lawn currently and for the last
four years i’ve been serving on the
board of directors of the maple on hoa
tonight i am here on behalf of those
residents let me start by saying that i
love living in maple lawn
as a realtor i’m familiar with most
neighborhoods throughout the county
and only may belong could lure me into
moving away from my previous home in
ellicott city
it is a diverse and vibrant neighborhood
and i feel lucky to reside here
i’m not anti-development as a howard
county resident for over 40 years i have
watched our county grow and become an
amazing place to live and raise our
families however
i am concerned about the future of maple
lawn with this proposed plan
i am not in support of the plan as it is
outlined
why provide access by connecting the
road into an already established and
well-designed neighborhood
where the roads the public spaces
amenities and budget
are designed around the existing
thirteen hundred homes
it worked for that number of residents

34
01:06:00.000 –> 01:08:00.000
not for eighteen hundred
crossing into maple lawn not only will
disrupt the wildlife ecosystem of the
hammond branch
but also will disrupt the ecosystem of
our neighborhood
the integration of 32 homes has always
been considered when we studied
improvements and additions to our
community
that would have a neutral impact on our
community and environment
clearly the integration of 500 units
would have a negative impact on our
facilities and roads
your website states that your goal is
development of safe
healthy equitable connected and
sustained communities
this plan does not seem to bear out that
gold the current road conditions have
been poorly thought out
today sadly the traffic on yeager
boulevard
is an accident waiting to happen i live
on the yeager boulevard and i am very
aware of the problem we have with people
speeding on that street
a street that is used by many children
walking to school
the current plan will only exasperate
these problems
the safety of our children is at stake
here one of your stated goals is to
ensure safety for all residents and this
plan if allowed
surely will not provide that to our
residents here in maple lawn
if developing out without the connection
to federal street and directly into
maple lawn
is a more burdensome and a more
expensive process for the developer
then that is a burden that the developer
must bear enabling an easy
pathway by connecting it to maple lawn
is not smart growth
i ask you to please consider all of
these points that you have
been presented to to you tonight and
stay in line with your stated mandate
to respect individual rights and protect
the county’s natural environment
historical integrity and character
so thank you for your time and please
please get this right
thank you next please okay i’m gonna go
back and try mr nelson
again hopefully
mr nelson are you there good evening i’m
here can you hear me

35
01:08:00.000 –> 01:10:00.000
i can hear you quite well actually good
not sure what happened there i rebooted
uh uh mason nelson i’m counsel for the
maple lawn homeowners association
my plan is to address the history of the
preliminary development plan since 1998
and i submitted uh to miss kenny
yesterday 11 exhibits to which
i’ll refer during my brief comments
this story begins as we all know in 1998
when the petitioner first applied for an
approval for the preliminary development
plan
for this piece of property the proposal
was 2.3
dwelling units per acre 32 of which were
going to be large lot
rural houses in the old farm district
the exhibit 4 which i submitted to
ms kennedy yesterday is a rendering
submitted by the applicant depicting
these rural 32 large lots
in the old farm district these lots were
described as
preserving the farm character of the old
farm district
the zoning board considered the
application
and they reduced the the applicant’s
proposal from 2.3 units to 2.2
units per gross acre the zoning board
uh concluded that the proposed density
of 2.3 units per acre
per gross acre was too high and they
were going to approve
2.2 that’s the zoning board’s decision
but even 2.2 was too high for two
members
of of the uh of the of the board
councilman kiliman and councilman murden
the senate uh they argued that it should
be only uh 2.0 units per acre
data level would make the uh the density
compatible with the surrounding
communities so the project was approved
for 2.2
in the year 2000. that was the status
quo for four years when the effort came
back
with a second amended application here
they proposed
an additional 518 dwelling units
including

36
01:10:00.000 –> 01:12:00.000
242 in the old farm district
for an overall uh uh ratio of
2.7 units uh per acre
the planning board recommended
disapproval
let me just read from the planning
board’s recommendation the board found
that the old family old farm amendments
would be too dense to be compatible with
the surrounding communities
and did not provide for an adequate
transition as specified in the original
of pdp planning board recommended that
uh disapproval
zoning board uh reviewed the uh the
application uh carefully in 2005
in 2005 the work the work minutes
the minutes for the work session uh made
clear that the
uh the zoning board thought that the
increase was
in density was was too high uh uh
and they were not comfortable they
didn’t want to do it uh the
in in response to that the applicant
withdrew the application and then there
was a
a motion to approve the plan minus the
new density
in the old farm uh district so
what we have there is a decision to
maintain the density that had been in
existence
uh since uh 2000.
now here we are in 2021 the applicant
has come back
and has suggested uh an additional 473
dwelling units in the old farm district
this is
more than they asked for in 2000 more
than they asked for
uh in 2004 and and
we’re urging you to disa to recommend uh
disapproval
there are two legal reasons in my view
why
you should disapprove the first
recommended disapproval is the first
reason
is a reason not addressed by technical
staff section 127.0.d
883 talks about when you can increase
uh the density of the rural dense the
residential density
what it says is that if you are going to

37
01:12:00.000 –> 01:14:00.000
revise the permitted uses
in a certain land use area and here the
revised usage are being changed
from single family detached to single
family attached
and apartment buildings but if you want
to make that change the permitted use
you cannot change the density of the
residential development
and you can’t change the land use a
designation
here uh the applicant is proposing to
change
both the land use designation and
increase uh the density of the
residential village
that is a legal threshold reason as to
why
uh this board should recommend
disapproval
then then even getting beyond that if
you look at the criteria
recited by uh technical staff at
127.0.d7
one of the big themes of these of these
regulations
is compatibility with a vicinal property
i would urge the planning board to
reflect on the fact
that for the last two decades the
planning board
the zoning board has consistently found
that an
overall density of no greater than 2.2
uh drawing units per gross acre
would be the upper limit of
compatibility
with the vicinal properties so we would
urge the planning board
to recommend uh that this project does
not satisfy those requirements
that that the planning board should
recommend maintaining the current status
of 2.2 drawing units per per gross acre
so for all those reasons on behalf of my
clients i urge this planning board to
recommend
disapproval of this application because
the density
is too intense it’s incompatible with
the vicinal properties
and thank you again and i apologize one
more time for the
technical difficulties i can’t explain
it but i’m i’m glad we solve it thank
you so much
ed you’re muted yeah no thanks i’m glad
we got you in
um next please next would be

38
01:14:00.000 –> 01:16:00.000
miss grover uh miss grover are you there
yes i’m here can you state your name and
address please
my name is ruth grover my address is
5727
ridgeview drive alexandria virginia
22310
okay i have a masters of urban planning
with over 35 years professional planning
experience including currently working
for macy
nelson which brings me to this hearing
i’ve been asked to testify
on the maple lawn pdp amendment
application
which based on the long history of
approvals on the site
comprehensive planning principles and
the governing ordinances and plans
should be disapproved
as mr nelson has already detailed the
original pdp was approved for a density
lower than what was originally requested
and in the single amendment application
the zoning board refused a request to
increase
the density in the old farm district
stating that it would take away from the
design
concept that was to provide a buffer
with the existing neighborhoods the
current application again seeks to
increase
density of the old farm district and
increase the dwelling unit types to
include
smaller lot single-family detached
townhouses and apartments
and increase overall residential density
from 2.2 to 3 units per acre
and increasing the maximum allowable
density for the single family detached
from 2.8 to 2.
to 4.3 units per acre
these are new residential land use types
which
if introduced would markedly affect the
land use fabric of the development
pre-planned developments such as maple
lawn farms have a rich history dating
back to the 19th century
and the garden cities of ebenezer howard
in england where the goal was to develop
a superior place to live
this planning theory and reality was

39
01:16:00.000 –> 01:18:00.000
brought to the united states and can
be seen locally in the greater
washington dc area
in the post-depression era town of
greenbelt maryland and the new towns of
private enterprise such as columbia
maryland and western
rest in virginia where land uses
densities amenities and facilities were
carefully planned to provide a founding
concept and a land use fabric for the
development
which all future amendments of plans
should support
rather this amendment would undermine
the founding concept to create a
thriving community
that offered the ability to work and
shop near where one resides
increasing the density and intensity of
the residential use while
reducing retail square footage will
serve to create
more demands on county resources and
give less to existing residents in the
community exacerbating existing
problems with the lack of vitality in
the business district
as stated on page 142 of plan howard
2030
as the county is faced with
redevelopment opportunities
that it be contextually sensitive in
terms of
uses intensities heights setbacks
and design in order to be compatible
with surrounding existing development
in this way the new development would
give homage to its context
and be compatible with the surrounding
agrarian and residential land use to the
west of the subject site
the original plan for the project with
low-density single-family detached
residential units on the western end
served this vision the requested
amendments do not
the requested amendments are a first
step in a series of
approvals that will have to be
undertaken before the project can go
to construction and will be will set
precedent for
undermining the planning concept for the
project
as it moves forward through the major
subdivision approval
a final plan and a site development plan

40
01:18:00.000 –> 01:20:00.000
process
good planning anticipation do you have a
do you have a final thought please
um yes i think this project
is contrary to all the evaluation
criteria that are being applied
and should be disapproved thank you for
your time
thank you you’re welcome
um amy
amy hater
um hi this is ann
how are you i’m good good okay if you
could just state your name and address
uh yes my name is annie heidershaw and i
am um my i live in ellicott city
maryland that’s 3704 font hill drive
okay can you speak a little louder uh
yes
okay that’s better um
yes give me just a moment i need to pull
up my testimony i didn’t know it’s
coming up next
um
i wanted to um write i wanted to
uh share a personal um story about maple
on
um i have watched the maple lawn project
for many years i’ve lived in howard
county since 2000
it is a it is a the planned community
that i’ve seen
i’m impressed with i have noticed
that the commercial area
is currently under utilized
and in support of the commercial
district and the restaurants and other
real estate um i’m sorry um
other uh other folks in that
area i’d like to say that i am in
support of
the the neighborhood in maple on west

41
01:20:00.000 –> 01:22:00.000
i am also in support of the
mihu project on in the apartments
that are there um i think that as a
mixed housing
combination of single-family and
attached homes is important i also think
that the
apartments that will be there are
especially critical to the varied
housing style and price points
in the neighborhood as a result i think
the
it is it increases the necessary
infrastructure and adaptation of the
community to
increase the density and help the real
estate
i’m sorry see the commercial area uh
thrive thank you
thank you next please
alan schneider mr snyder can you help me
yes thank you very much uh my name is
alan schneider
pardon go ahead and state your name and
address please
my name is alan schneider i live at one
two five nine eight uh
state route 108 and i frequently visit
the pulton area i am
very very uh surprised and i’m just uh
worried that the planning board could
actually
approve or consider approving a project
of this size at this time
there are many many unknown uh unknown
factors that you really need to know
about and one of them is whether or not
there’s any
uh enough sewer waste for the
the this proposal and then you’ve also
got the the five stages which go uh
into about 10 years so we’re looking at
a huge um
huge development here and and uh
you really need to have infrastructure
first before additional development
and in other counties i know that the uh

42
01:22:00.000 –> 01:24:00.000
the infrastructure is paid for by the
developers
uh rather than by the by the citizens
for example prince george’s county so we
you have you have some more information
about that your goal here i think has
has been stated before
is is planning ahead and we already know
that the two schools there
in that area already have seven and nine
uh temporary trailers so uh what’s going
to happen to the schools
something needs to be actually planned
for
exactly and same with with the highway
system
you really have some very very serious
concerns here that need to be considered
before going forward we also know as
has been stated before that in this area
within three miles of that uh
uh state route 216 you’ve got
another i believe it is 1500 units
so uh we’ve got to take this in
consideration of the development
in that area and this looks more like
comprehensive zoning looking forward
and the comprehensive zoning is now
going forward with the
hoco by design so we’re we don’t want to
get ahead of ourselves without having a
good plan and that is one of your
responsibilities so i would really like
to know
how you’re going to find out all of
these unknown details and who pays for
the
in infrastructure and what should be
done
in advance and known in advance and i
think that
commitments and promises and binding
covenants
are absolutely essential so those are
several of my comments and i know that
other people have
provided more details and i uh
i’m very very opposed to going forward
at this time there really needs to be a
moratorium
on any development at this time before
infrastructure is actually undertaken
to resolve overcrowding in schools and
highway congestion
thank you very much

43
01:24:00.000 –> 01:26:00.000
thank you next please
allen kittleman can you hear me
i can can you go ahead and state your
name and address please sure
alan kittleman 3030 kittleman lane west
french of maryland
um i’m testifying today as as a citizen
and i first want to say i appreciate
what the residents of maple lawn
and their council have done they’ve
addressed the criteria very very well
uh i’m gonna be looking at a bigger
picture here um
i was a zoning board member from 1998 to
2004.
i participated in the original zoning
board case on maple lawn
in fact i was the only member of the
zoning board to
personally attend every one of the
hearings and work sessions
34 nights of hearings over a year and i
can provide you with a unique
perspective
of what occurred in 2000 and how it
relates to the current proposal
i was one as you heard mr nelson say of
two
zoning board members who voted against
the maple on project
and i can tell you i was very
disappointed listening to mr o
back on july 8th say that anyone who
opposed
that plan did not want people living in
maple lawn and was really trying to
divide
the community that couldn’t be farther
from the truth and unfortunately mr oh
knows it
as mr nelson said mr murda and i gave a
dissent and we had an alternative
proposal which
only reduced it from 2.2 dwelling units
per acre down to 2.0
making it more compatible with the
surrounding communities so
clearly i like maple lawn i think it’s a
great community but i think we need to
make sure that people understand the
truth now that as i said that zoning
word hearing went for about a year
i heard on july 8th um michael greenbaum
stated that his father stewart presented
a detailed vision
of maple lawn back in the in the 2000
time
and he was correct mr green obama
and i have great respect for him and

44
01:26:00.000 –> 01:28:00.000
michael greenbaum he gave a detailed
vision along with his team
and their promise and their commitment
to the surrounding community
as well as the members of the zoning
board was that the old farm district
would be limited to large live single
family detached units
just as mr nelson said they said it
would preserve the farm
character they painted a beautiful
picture of this open space
that was going to be the transition from
the more dense part of michelin
into the rural part of howard county
mr o further disappointed me when he
said that the previous zoning board back
in 2006
expected people to come back the
petition to come back he said that’s
true
based on their prohibition of two more
years of
uh providing a petition that’s totally
not true that was a penalty
it was not an incentive to come back in
closing
uh the planning board has an opportunity
to send a clear message to the
petitioner and to the residents who live
in and around maple lawn
it is offensive to me as a member of the
zoning board that originally considered
the maple lawn development
that the petitioner is going back on
their commitment in 2000
and to the zoning board into the
community they made it clear in 2000
what they planned for in the old farm
district
they should be required to keep their
commitment
if we don’t do this planning board if
you don’t give a recommendation of
disapproval
then we’re going to continue to have
this distrust in our community of
government
and distrust of the development
community there are a lot of great
developers
i am not against development i just want
people to be true to their word
and that was the word they made to us
back in 2000 and as mr nelson said
uh all the zoning boards in the playing
board since then have tried to keep it
at 2.2
12 units per acre and i think that the
playing board should make the same
recommendation
please recommend a disapproval to the
zoning board thank you very much
thank you next please
brent loveless good evening uh
brent loveless 9570 west bottom road i’m

45
01:28:00.000 –> 01:30:00.000
also the
legislative chair of the pta council of
howard county
the the presentation started last week
with the
comment that you can’t be against
development that’s a pretty
broad statement but in the context of
howard county if your schools are
overcrowded system-wide
you’re installing fleet supportable
classrooms without sprinklers
the budget cannot sustain class sizes we
have a backlog of a half a billion in
deferred maintenance
and the state has run out of funding to
meet matching obligations
in a host of other reasons it may
inspire you to be against
most or all development in howard county
for the moment
reasons could extend to stark
transitions disruptive activity
the loss of agricultural land
destruction of environmental and
historic resources
and even more egregious activity by
local developers
that have harmed the most vulnerable
children of elderly residents
regardless much of the de facto approval
of this project
revolves around a fiscal analysis it has
been brought up time and time again that
dpz
is using a methodology of counting
student yields which disproportionately
assigns enrollment growth to the resale
of a structure
the primary purpose of that practice is
to misrepresent
one-time true costs of a housing
unit on the school system and other
public services
to subsidize growth there is no
indication that this project has
addressed this reoccurring analysis
issue
the very fact that the assumptions are
based on straight-line assessments of
recent budget assessments rather than
the true cost to meet the standards of
adequacy shows a significant negative
impact this can be refuted by claiming
different methodologies or assumptions
to divert your attention
but the evidence that the mantra that
new growth universally has a net
positive impact does not stand against

46
01:30:00.000 –> 01:32:00.000
the reality of budgets
each year they’re not able to provide
capacity expansion for roads
fire ems service school capacity
watershed or replacement of hundreds of
portable classrooms
as we discuss buffers and view shed why
is the planning board not being told of
efforts to expand the psa westward
for the petitioner on adjoining parcels
through the general plan process or the
impact of new accessory dwelling units
allowed by
wright that were suggested this very
evening that could affect future unit
counts
or the contract or the contracted
explanation that the school system had
minor comments which transitioned into a
site reservation request
which transitioned into no space for the
project which
transitioned to we’re just doing
ancillary units
to which transition to we’re doing a
public private partnership
why did that not be a leading topic
going on here you are being told you
must approve the general plan
which the petitioners representatives
have had helped
author strict adherence to this general
plan would
actually have had a review by now of
road surcharges to alleviate some of
these community concerns
the exponential expansion of this
project is built on a series of
subjective
reassurances which are not being
validated to ensure
a net benefit to the community i
respectfully ask that you deny
this extraordinary petition until we
have demonstrated
an extraordinary system is in place to
positively
sustain the change of use thank you very
much
thank you next question

47
01:32:00.000 –> 01:34:00.000
bruce harvey hello
my name is bruce harvey i also live in
maple lawn 7792
um fulton uh lane road geez
so i’m in testifying in favor of zb1127n
so i find the proposed plan of maple on
west 157 single families 148 towns
and 200 multi-family units as desirable
i’m especially pleased to see the
multi-family units and
mihu homes this will allow more fil
affordability than what is currently in
napalm
the milk to build maple on west under
the current pdp
which was 30 the 32 single families that
everybody’s
talked about that would be uh
irresponsible
the homes would be extraordinarily
expensive
the new plan increases the overall
density of maple onto three homes as
we’ve discussed
previously which is what the density
what the zoning category calls for
we have very few large parcels left in
the county
and so this is the right place to put
this density
um everyone in the county many
who are concerned about schools and
overcrowding but we have to remember
that ap apfo tests this plan will be
subject to
it cannot proceed without to fruition
without meeting those tests other than a
long
waiting period more important to me is a
fiscal impact study
done by planning zoning that study is
estimating approximately
11 million dollars of new school charger
surcharge fees
this is unprecedented new dollars to
help build new school capacity
all based on a new fee that’s going up
by six times
in january may belong is a great
community we certainly heard how much
people love it and i do too
uh i’m very pleased to live here and
and think it’s a wonderful place this

48
01:34:00.000 –> 01:36:00.000
um new addition to maple lawn will only
add to the desirable
desirability of our community and i’m
especially again
pleased to see the more affordable
element so
the more affordable element i believe is
maximized with the added density thus
i’m very much in favor of zb 11 27 m
thank you for hearing my testimony
thank you next please
next i have
james caprara james are you with us
yes i am my name is james caprero
11295 market street
in maple lawn um and
um i just have a few things to say and
uh my what i say may be a little
uneventful
so my wife and i have lived in maple one
for five years
prior we lived in neighboring
clarksville but always
we knew when we found a downsize
if we stayed in the area that maple lawn
will be our home
we’re also small business owners of
maple lawn we own and operate decadent
uh just a few blocks actually from where
we live
so maple lawn community has been one
that’s been very good to us and one that
we’ve invested in heavily
um and it’s part of our lives in many
many ways
we looked at maple lawn because it
attracts young professionals
couples starting a family with hopes of
moving on
some point to a larger home and those
like us that we’re downsizing
i think what we all have in common is
the love
of the maple lawn environment and small
town culture
it’s truly a unique place to live and we
love it
you know i’ve taken the time to speak to
business owners
my other business owners other myself
residents and friends the developer of

49
01:36:00.000 –> 01:38:00.000
course
who’s my landlord and our hoa to gain
some understanding of the project
it’s history and planning i don’t
consider myself an expert
but i am really on extremely an interest
party an interested party and seeing how
the community grows
as a business owner and speaking with
others
making a living to make lawn i believe
the economic advantages of an expanded
maple lawn
for the existing businesses potential
for a local employment pool
um an attraction of maybe boutique
retail shops maybe fill up some of those
commercial spaces
would help enhance one of maple lawn’s
finest attractions
it’s livability we love having
everything easily accessible
so i would contend that expanded
development would be a positive for
maple on
one challenge viewed by the businesses
and one that i know the hoa is working
on
with the developer is a solution for
enhanced pedestrian traffic
just how this new traffic might flow
safely and without disturbance to the
quality of life we enjoy today
is paramount as a resident
i listen closely to my neighbors density
school discharging and the potential of
overcrowding are all critical to solve
and these need to be resolved these are
challenges that underpin the quality of
life home values
business prosperity and are all really
at the core
we no longer have children of school age
ourselves at home and many on this call
may not by the time the project’s
completed but we all need to support
the time and effort needed to satisfy
these issues
i feel confident that the basic
challenges such as the hoa integration
the traffic issues
a lot of the what i’ve been hearing
today are already in progress and will
be addressed
finally i just have confidence in our
hoa that they will secure solutions in
the best interests of the community
i also have confidence in the developer
of this project

50
01:38:00.000 –> 01:40:00.000
that with the expansion will see quality
understanding and the ability to
leverage their experience to help
resolve remaining issues that may impede
a satisfactory way to move forward
i’m going to thank you for this
opportunity
not a lot of technical data here just a
little something from the heart
um so i think it’s something that we
need to move forward with
um it just has to be done correctly
thank you very much
thank you next please
i have a call-in user are you there
um ed i’m seeing a problem when kevin’s
kevin are you there
is erica still with us too
yes i’m here okay okay
it looks like kevin’s having some issues
on his end
we’ll give him a minute um you want to
take like a
five minute oh there he is serious
okay i just happened to see that so i
wanted to hold up a minute
here you’re back kevin
kevin can you hear us i can hear you
fine
okay okay thank you
uh chris bloor
hi i’m here you hear me okay sure state
your name and address please
sure chris bloor 8041 murphy road

51
01:40:00.000 –> 01:42:00.000
and um i’m the president of the murphy
road stay being
hoa i represent 41 houses
agree to speak on behalf of the hoa
okay go ahead uh to give a little
background our community
predates uh maple on so
just to give you a little understanding
maple maybelline development
uh started in the fulton community uh
when there was no residential
um public water or sewer it was not
supported then by the citizens of fulton
uh mostly represented by uh the beaufort
park
residence but some compromises reached
there by limiting density to 2.2
houses per acre i used the word
compromise carefully because it was
really
more an agreement between planning and
zoning the developer and the county
uh developer decided to push all density
to the east using the four acre housing
lots in the turkey farm to meet the
2.2 houses per acre density requirement
people in my community made life
decisions based on the zoning
from the county and planning and zoning
they bought here or invested in their
property with long-term plans
since the beginning of maple on 20-plus
years ago we’ve had
public water magically appear for large
tracts of land without
the required notifications of adjoining
residential lots
as is the case for maple one south and
the town has
yet to be built next to maple on south
when pressing the developer we get
answers like oh it was a mistake that it
wasn’t drawn into the psa
and it’s being resolved by the county uh
as if it had no
as if it’s so insignificant to add over
100 acres into the psa
after that we’re told by the landover
and developer that any psa
is really wasted if it doesn’t have high
density housing
or as a politicians like to call it
smart growth
uh here we are yet again another large
lot
for the citizens and planning and zoning

52
01:42:00.000 –> 01:44:00.000
and the county have
already negotiated a zoning that the
surrounding community has accepted and
built their lives around
this proposal doesn’t feel like planning
and zoning it feels like zoning and
zoning
uh and we’re always told that the county
will
figure out the schools anytime a new
development comes along yet the local
schools already
uncomfortably overcrowded maple on south
isn’t finished and the milk producers
development of 400 houses haven’t
has it have it hasn’t even started
uh sango said that not all development
is bad
my community actually agrees with this
but good development benefits the
existing community
first we don’t see any benefits for the
existing community
no new schools no shared infrastructure
no easing of traffic
that’s that’s it for me thanks
thank you next please
christopher now walk
christopher yes can you hear me chris
now walk here
8109 hunt field drive a member of the
hunt field community association
under section uh 127 of the zoning code
community meetings should be attempted
in good faith my wife sitting next to me
is president of our hoa for the last six
years the developer never reached out
prior to the submission of the uh pdp to
have a conversation with our community
like is required
if you review the subdivision review
committee reports
several of the agencies point out that
mr yeager is planning 270 units on 40
acres west of maple lawn west
plus across the street a little further
west 30
000 square feet of retail he’s asked to
bring into the psa
a neighbor a little further south and
west the mocks are
asking for 70 age-restricted homes on uh
on their seven acres so we’re seeing a

53
01:44:00.000 –> 01:46:00.000
lot of additional
development that should be included in
this planning for truly
a planning board we should be looking
broader than the the current uh
this current development an interesting
thing that the
petitioners traffic consultant reported
that he really didn’t use current
numbers in his report he just
he brought some old numbers in and he’d
do a better job
later on but why wouldn’t we want the
right
answers now about traffic the board of
ed
in their letter said we need space we
need a dirt to put a bill to school yet
nothing
has been proposed for that to solve that
problem why wouldn’t the developer want
to
help solve the problem by donating some
dirt 100 acres right there’s got to be
some room for
schools another portion the um
schools if we’re going to if we’re going
to develop schools a lot of the small
communities to the south and west
and murphy road down the road down line
kiln ourselves we’re likely to be picked
up
and moved and redistricted right because
we’re a small pocket of
students easy to handle i suggest that
we have to really start to think about
the development polygon
and that that the people in the new
maple line west would be the folks that
move and there’s some sort of profit
given
to protect the people around the area
that we’re not we’re not
impacted where the people who are new
should be impacted
you know this is uh this is more about
dispersal versus concentration and
catch-up this this current proposal
asks that the developer catch up on some
zoning area he’s packing
4.6 units per acre or so by the way
baltimore city is 4.9 units per acre so
we’re talking about urban densities
going in across the street against the
psa line against the
the rural west so i really think we
ought to look at that the um we talked
about
uh traditional development to
traditional development neighborhood
development
there’s really one spine road going into
this traditional neighborhood
developments really looks like a
cul-de-sac
with with the traditional neighborhood
development on the inside
let’s look to the outside and bring the
whole community in let’s disperse the
traffic
not one traffic circle maybe two maybe

54
01:46:00.000 –> 01:48:00.000
there’s something going on at the pendle
school road
maybe there’s a spiner that goes into
the campus so the children
and the parents don’t come out to 216 to
go into the school campus let’s come in
from the back
there’s also opportunity to to connect
to um
hopkins road currently there’s six
entrances
for a hundred and for one thousand three
hundred homes this is five hundred homes
uh to one entrance so it really doesn’t
make it’s not new urbanism folks
the apartments the the the developers
asking for an increase
to about 385 units he has 210 allocated
why can’t we use those first couple
those those current allocations why are
we asking for more so
clearly there’s a plan for a second
apartment building somewhere at some
point
let’s pay attention to that you know and
if you look at
apartment buildings today they’re more
commercial right they have a loading
dock they have a structured parking
they’re five stories they have a
freight elevator let’s take that
commercial building and put it in
downtown
where the business district is then it
makes sense then there’s walkability
that’s new urbanism
right if it’s traditional town
development it’s new urbanism
let’s put the people down where their
services are then it gets back to the
other woman who said she wants to see
the businesses thrive
thank you do you have do you have a
final thought yeah i i’d ask you that
you uh
that you uh reject this this proposal
and ask the developer to come back
with that with all the answers to the
big questions before we
approve it thank you thank you
next please
uh clifford
okay thank you uh my name is clifford
brown i live in
south maple lawn at 11028
charles way i’ll keep my comments quite
brief i don’t have all the background on
this that others do
because i’ve only lived here since
december of last year although i do own
property
just north of of maple lawn

55
01:48:00.000 –> 01:50:00.000
so i am quite concerned about one aspect
and that is
and people have talked about it earlier
the proposed traffic
on yeager boulevard in phase one that’s
a non-starter
that to try to put more traffic there i
know that because
we lived very close to that and we my
son walked
across that same road on his way to
school
and my two six-year-old girls would have
walked there but for the fact that we
moved to south napalon deliberately so
that they could walk across the street
to fulton
elementary but i still own that property
if this project goes forward
you should i hope consider requiring
another access route
either connect oak crest lane to federal
street
so that people can go straight north to
johns hopkins because
if the garden district was proposed a
southern exit
to 216 that was done at a time when you
were talking about
far far fewer homes south of them
now you’re talking about many times
that number of homes and those people
many of those are going to go on to go
north
unless this plan changed and i’ve read
the traffic study
i i just don’t accept that jager
boulevard could ever accommodate the
northern traffic so it either has to go
out to pendle school road or it has to
go straight
up and there is a space for it they’ve
already allowed a
space between the homes to connect oak
crest lane which goes to johns hopkins
to with federal street so that’s my
issue and i i hope that
it gets your attention thank you
thank thank you next please
david morgan
thank you very much um first thank you
to
alan kittleman our former county
executive for

56
01:50:00.000 –> 01:52:00.000
testifying and also thanks to all the
current members of the
planning board um for all your service
here
so please write your name and address
yes my apologies
for one reservoir road
in fulton maryland 2075 okay
thank you so
i believe so far i am the only
resident from the rr or the
rural residential portion of the county
um and i moved here in 2015
and i knew what maple one was
and appreciated what it was and my
understanding is
the jaeger farm on which
this is being proposed to be developed
was supposed to be
32 units and
again like many other petitioners have
said before me
i don’t have a problem with development
i’m not a nimby person
i believe that other people should be
able to enjoy howard county
as we are enjoying howard county
however going from 32 units
to 500 plus units is a drastic increase
and this is not columbia the
very edge of rural howard county
so everything gets extended
i’ve mentioned all the traffic concerns
a lot of the traffic plans
maybe consider whether people can flow
in and out of
maple lawn to 216 but they don’t
consider
us i am down online
and what it will do to us and our
communities in terms of our ability to
use 216.
216 has already become considerably more

57
01:52:00.000 –> 01:54:00.000
crowded
since maple on south and the assisted
living
community has been built right next to
maple lawn
so we have concerns about that that
don’t seem to be addressed by current
plans
now i understand that growth
is a current goal of howard county
however we moved here
environmentally as
conscientious as we can and so
we are all on well and septic and the
burden on the land
is extraordinary with 500 plus units
there
they’re on city water and city sewer
howard county is bursting at the seams
we have kids in trailers now
at the schools and we can’t absorb this
much growth this fast
i understand howard county has a problem
that’s enviable to other counties
we are great everyone here
but we are literally bursting at the
seams we have to slow down a little bit
so again we don’t have a problem with
somewhere between 32
and 500 plus we just need something
a little bit less than 500 plus
i thank you for your attention
thank you next please
uh i apologize
yeah that’s good i’m so sorry
no that’s that’s fine um
if you could just take your address
please for the record
okay uh hurry had gu 11013
charles way members of the planning

58
01:54:00.000 –> 01:56:00.000
board i’m
testifying today to ask you how you will
ensure that your decision
is based on a complete and accurate data
uh
while the petitioner has framed this
presentation
in terms of residents who are opposed to
development i suspect
and as evidenced by a lot of the
presentations today
most don’t fall in that category
including me
however many including me are concerned
about the impact of
residential development on public
infrastructure
um i was on the spending affordability
advisory committee
before where i reviewed
several alarming reports about the
county’s inability to maintain
existing level of service and
which led which has led to a lot of debt
uh to that end
you know we so we need to we need to uh
ensure that we maintain the level of
service
uh so the petitioners uh report has
several flaws the traffic study and
roads
i’ll uh reiterate what was stated
earlier regarding the transportation
demand management plan
uh where the county uh has requested uh
certain verifications on the t the tdmp
funds um and uh
to ask that you follow up uh on that
including
any other uh uh requirements that were
supposed to be met at the
uh at the previous decisions and or
orders that were issued
the mdot state highway administration
also sent a letter to the petitioner
with several requests
primarily relating to how the petitioner
compounds
traffic data for example the sha says
that the 2014 count
shows that the pm through movement as
829
and the diagram shows the peak for this

59
01:56:00.000 –> 01:58:00.000
movement
as 685 in 2021
so there’s a there are problem there are
problems with the way that
that’s been compounded of course the
major glaring issue with the traffic
study
is the fact that it uses 2021 pandemic i
mean pandemic numbers versus
actual real traffic count uh
the mihu is calculated based on the 505
units
and uh uh whereas the density
uh and open space requirements are based
on the total 1800 units
we need a consistent way to calculate
that if we used
1800 units for the mihu it’s actually
going to be 2.7
so we need we need a consistent basis
for that
uh with respect to schools i uh the
school board is actually asking about
school
sites elementary school sites not some
ancillary building so
we need focus on that the fiscal impact
study
um has some gross assumptions
that will be hard that that specifically
say that there will be a net revenue
uh but i don’t think it takes into
account the capital infrastruct the
capital cost
to add to the schools uh on average it
costs
anywhere from 75 000 on
up per student to to to build a new
school
the hammond edition is actually costing
uh um i believe for 200
uh students it’s a 200 seats it’s 111
and it’s 110 million so uh
you know it cost more actually to add
seats than to build a new school
and that needs to be taken into
consideration
uh and last uh lastly uh the water and
source study actually also needs further
scrutiny
uh because the the
the developer uh claims that the 20
20 45 number uh

60
01:58:00.000 –> 02:00:00.000
projects uh as uh
projects the average flow rate uh
average daily flow rate has 23.9
million gallons per day whereas
the the county’s report that the
the county’s master plan for water and
sewer
has the 20 it projects the 2040 average
flow rate
to be 25.9 million gallons per day so
it’s it’s this this petitioner is saying
that it will actually go
down by 2045 whereas the existing county
official record
says that it will actually be much more
in 2040.
so there are a lot of uh flaws uh with
the uh
i’m you know concerned about our
taxpayer dollars i’m concerned about
quality of
service uh and i’m concerned about the
school system
and our infrastructure so i urge you to
scrutinize this petition uh
with uh more closely uh thank you
thank you next please
jackie yang
good evening
just state your name and address please
for the record jackie yang
760 hoods mill road cooksville maryland
uh good evening i’m presenting testimony
on behalf of the housing affordability
coalition
coalition which is comprised of over 70
organizations
and and individuals who share a
commitment to increasing
the availability of affordable housing
for middle and low-income county
residents
the coalition is in support of the
proposed amendment to the maple lawn
farms preliminary development plan
as has been strongly documented in the
just completed
housing opportunities master plan and
throughout the hoco by design
process the county needs to create

61
02:00:00.000 –> 02:02:00.000
affordable affordability throughout the
county and increase density and housing
typology
whenever possible to address the current
gap of over 5000 units available to low
and middle
income households and the projected
affordability need that will be created
by an
influx of 31 000 new employees over the
next 20 years
coalition certainly concurs with these
conclusion and therefore
offers its general support for this pdp
as it is a positive step toward ensuring
inclusion of both affordable rental
and ownership opportunities that are
near employment
in an area of the county with little
current affordability
we suggest however that the pdp be
approved by the planning board
only with the integration of the
following requirements
misuse must be required to remain on
site and not subject to fee and lieu
payments and therefore not transferable
to future developments
as such transfers have in the past been
a significant contributor to
perpetuating
concentration of lower income units and
therefore households to limited areas of
the county
we encourage consideration of low-income
housing units
and disability income housing units to
satisfy the mit requirements
second request is to ensure against
grandfathering a lower mihu percentage
if subsequent regulatory changes
increase required mihu percentages
include the requirement that the mihu
percentage shall be greater of
one the current 10 percent mio2
requirement or 2 be consistent with
zoning regulations at the time when
building permits are granted
and our third request is to ensure that
mih units are available
at the same time as all market rate
units and ensure mius in all phases of
construction
as has been documented through the
master plan and hoco by design there
continues to be a lack of
significant housing stock in our county
that’s affordable to residents who are
the mainstay of our communities public
safety health and education systems

62
02:02:00.000 –> 02:04:00.000
every opportunity to generate low and
middle income housing stock including
this maple lawn west
pdp should be a priority for housing
policy decisionary
decision makers as we encourage planning
board members to approve this pdp we
also encourage the maple long community
to embrace the project and its
contribution to addressing housing
disparities in the county
we must all work together to ensure that
all parts of the county are welcoming
and affordable for all residents and
workers we appreciate planning board
members consideration of our concerns
about ensuring
the mihu elements of the project are
protected
maximized and remain fully intact within
maple lawn
this is an important policy moment an
opportunity to make a strong statement
and commitment
to housing affordability and a more
inclusive community
thank you thank you next please
uh katya fort rhoden
can you hear me i can yes um may i ask a
request of you
um i have heard several times from maple
on
homeowners usually on social media that
people like me
that can afford to live in maple lawn
shouldn’t be there
can you turn my camera on because when
we talk about
mihu homeowners i am one i think it’s
really important that people see
who they’re talking about and that
there’s a face
to what a mihu homer homeowner is
is that something that can be
accommodated
honestly i don’t think i
can um that uh
if not that’s okay uh i don’t i’m lisa
can you
elevate her to the channel
um lisa can you elevate her to a panel
yeah that’s
thank you amy actually i was just
thinking i appreciate that i think it’s
really important
um especially in this age of zoom that
we have the opportunity to see each

63
02:04:00.000 –> 02:06:00.000
other and see who we’re talking to
okay if you turn your camera on okay let
me see start video
thank you for this
all right there we go hello all right
here we go
good evening my name is katya fort rodin
i live at 11009 apple orchard court in
skagsville maryland
i’m in walking distance to maple lawn my
co-parent recently purchased a home on
duke street
i’m here tonight to deliver a clear
message that howard county
southern howard county and the 216
corridor in particular
needs diverse housing options
i grew up here in howard county when i
was a student at appleton high school
in the early 90s this was all farmland
and the children of the rural residents
attended high school
appleton high school with me i am a
current
mihu homeowner my son went to fulton
he is currently at limestone lime kiln
middle school
and he is zoned or just are districted
to go
to reservoir i am invested in this
community
and i feel a moral obligation to look
after it
for the generations to come if you drive
216
started the scabsville road at little
patuxent river and the pg line
and go west until it becomes highland
road ending at 10 oaks
all you will see are million dollar
homes being built
a rough calculation means that any
household not making about 330
000 a year concurrently cannot afford to
move into our community
we need more housing options here in
southern howard county
i strongly advocate for the change in
the development plan to 148 townhomes
and 200 homes
i understand that when mr kittleman was
on the board
that was many years ago but needs have
changed
and the plan should just to meet those

64
02:06:00.000 –> 02:08:00.000
based on our rough estimate
this change will bring about 30 about at
least 35
moderately affordable homes
these mihu units will be accessible to
people
like me with a household income of about
65
to 144 000 a year
most importantly i urge this body to
approve the apartments or to suggest or
support the apartments
there are not enough rental units in our
community
i see this play out in my own townhouse
community where rentals are likely over
the hoa
approved amount there are not enough
rentals for young adults starting their
careers
for families in transition for single
parents
for our teacher our service worker our
police our firefighters our military
and for long time howard county
residents looking to downsize
however the most important factor i urge
everyone to consider
is that apartments are more accessible
to people with disability
and physical impairments most disabled
people cannot afford
a home or a million dollar home town
houses are multi-level
apartments continue to be the solution
that meets so many different housing
needs
this remaining farmland will be
developed
i’ve heard many people say tonight that
we have to get it right
and we do but right means
adjusting and changing to the needs
not in 1998 not in victoria
england not when mr kittleman was on the
board
but to the growing needs of an aging
population
to housing shortages and to people like
myself with limited incomes
i urge you to please support an
inclusive
community that does not become and well

65
02:08:00.000 –> 02:10:00.000
unwelcoming to people like me i thank
you for your time and thank you for
accommodating the camera
you thank you next next place
uh next i have kevin uh greg fox
lou can you hear me i can get your name
and address please for the record
yep hi good evening my name is greg fox
and i reside at 8117 hunt field drive
okay go ahead all right chairman coleman
planning board members thank you for
your time this evening
uh while i was really trying to take a
few few years off from any heavy
involvement uh
with these types of things i couldn’t
let this one go
i’ve lived in this area for over 30
years 10 years just north of maple lawn
and over 20 years just south of it
i spent 12 years as the council and
zoning board member representing
district 5 which borders maple lawn
further i was involved in the passage of
the general plan plan 2030
and the most comm and the most recent
comprehensive rezoning
so i think i might have a pretty good
understanding of the history around here
and the intent um but also
upset with a few other things as i heard
the attorney uh
mr o uh kick off you know his case so
i’m gonna start there
um i’m gonna start with developer under
attorney’s approach and then hit a few
additional items so
first one things attorneys try to do
when they have a major fault in their
case is to try to address it head-on and
diffuse it
this is exactly what mr ro tried to do
in his opening when he
when he tried to defuse the bait and
switch issue that this plan really is
i ask that you see through this another
tactic employed by attorneys especially
when negotiations might be involved is
to ask for way more
than they expect that way you might feel
good about the final solution
even if you actually lost this is
exactly what is happening
as the ask over the years have gone
exceedingly higher and residents are
scared
so scared that some might be okay with
anything less

66
02:10:00.000 –> 02:12:00.000
i again ask you to see through this
lastly
they delay cases hoping for a different
judge this is what they pretty much did
here
after being rebuffed again in 2006 and
with people involved in this case
the case is still there there was not
another ask
not even to the prior prior to just uh
to the comprehensive rezoning
so now following alan kidman’s time as
our county executive who was the last
person involved with either of those two
cases
they finally make another request hoping
that people forget the history
i ask that you see through this as far
as mxd3
mxd3 is an overlay district a it is not
a buy right district
the underlying district is rr rural
residential the three in mxd3 is not a
goal
but a limit one they did not initially
ask for
either in their initial or subsequent
filings to be clear
to others that testify tonight otherwise
the overlay district does not
call for three units per acre again it
is a limit
mr nelson did a great job earlier going
through the history and the legal side
of things as
well as point out a few of the
oversights of dpz so i’m going to skip
that
um i want to jump to
around to a couple of things um
second here
all right wow that was real fast um so
so just basically um you know just last
thought
is the intention of this district was
for to provide a well-designed community
which are compatible with surrounding
neighborhoods
and protected the natural elements of
the landscape the original plan did this
this new one does not the buffers that
they’re suggesting are not even close
to what was done for the original
community buffering it to the north
thank you next please

67
02:12:00.000 –> 02:14:00.000
lisa before before we go on to the next
roughly how many people are left
you read my mind actually i’m trying to
count right now
well i’ll just start spouting random
numbers to make it harder i get it

  1. ten okay
    thank you um next question
    lorenzo foxworth
    yes good afternoon um i’m lorenzo
    foxworth and my wife and i
    we are residents at 7568 morris street
    here in maple line
    we absolutely enjoy this community and
    we’ve been
    residents here since 2012 and that is
    absolutely nine years
    as vested homeowners we absolutely
    disagree with the request of building
    additional homes of 473
    from the petitioner’s request in whole
    and i use that word and hold those two
    words and hold
    for reason my family now absolutely for
    strategic planning
    planned growth as it as it positively
    can impact the services
    the roads safety traffic services
    and by most old situations the quality
    of life
    of the community we you have questions
    about the
    negative impact of such a petition for
    so many additional homes
    as the petition does not fairly take
    these considerations and concerns
    in a fundamental perspective the
    community is right for growth
    and not prepared for the destruction of
    such
    additional homes with such additional
    homes and how it may negatively
    impact the quality of life that exists
    now that is planned for the future
    for the maple lawn and footage community
    the reason why i state and disagree

68
02:14:00.000 –> 02:16:00.000
in whole is because for all practical
purposes
many aspects of this petition seem to be
already
have been settled based upon the
petitions of 2000
2006 and now again in 2021
as there’s been little information
presented to the original petition
to not support it in sustainable
and sustain and substantive manner for
all practical purposes this petition is
almost imminent
meaning that it’s going to happen what
what the concerns are about h.o.a
and many of the residences is that it’s
taken and as
if you were reviewed in such a way it’s
going to be impactful in positive ways
please do not allow this petition to
happen or pass and hold
professional is based on and um
the negative impacts of the additional
homes presents to the hoa
and investment team who do a great job
with this current resources and the
management team in place
but in many cases have had challenges
based upon making changes
in maple line on previous modifications
this current petition has been
percolating for over 20 years
very little action on acting on it
between 2000 and 2006
and between 2006 and president 21 to
mitigate the position
hold to to where his presence request is
what was a feasible at the time in 1998
and 2000 it’s absolutely
redundant to try to say it’s going to uh
create a good community with good
quality of life
moving forward now and in the future for
maple line
howard county and other vested partners
have not sustained
if you will just deliberate action to
stop and or amend the requests in years
between those that i mentioned
2000 2006 221 based on lack of evidence
presented to this community
and they’ve just before uh supported
therefore
lack of this lack of focus in many ways
is detrimental to the community
we my family my wife and i will not
support such a strategic plan while we
do believe in growth

69
02:16:00.000 –> 02:18:00.000
but not in irresponsible irregular
non-supported and substantive manner
we appreciate your time and your
consideration for this request
please deny any this request in hold
thank you for your time your
consideration and the time
thank you thank you next please
marion vessels
and i live at 2637 turf valley road
i am a board member of accessible
resources for independence or ari
ari is a disability resource and
advocacy organization
run by and for people with disabilities
one of the most frequent requests for
assistance we receive is for affordable
and often accessible housing as you know
it can be expensive to live in howard
county and many of the existing housing
units in howard county are older
and don’t feature accessible features
that are needed for those who have
mobility issues
or use a wheelchair we are excited to
hear about the
maple lawn west project as we believe
this will provide
more accessible and affordable housing
stock
that will benefit people with
disabilities with the addition of 48
moderate income housing units in a
walkable community
close to shopping and other enemy and
net
amenities sorry the project has the
potential to impact
people with disabilities in a very
positive way
we encourage you to make as many of
those units as accessible as possible
as a person who uses a power wheelchair
for mobility
and an almost 40-year resident powered
county
i can attest to how challenging it is to
find accessible apartments
and then accessible homes that can be
modified for a wheelchair user
we urge you to support the accessibility

70
02:18:00.000 –> 02:20:00.000
needs of our aging and disabled
population
with this project thank you
thank you next please
neil gossain neil gosai
uh you’re in here twice neil gosai
neil
mr gosak can you hear me
yeah go on and then we’ll try him last
okay prasad
ah yes i’m here uh uh my name is prasad
kiranakaran i
live at 7640 president street
in maple on maryland good evening chair
coleman
and planning board members my name is
prasad kardakaran i’m a resident and a
business owner in maple lawn and i am
pleased to testify as the 10th family to
move into this much loved community
and have lived here since september
2005.
tonight you’ll hear or have heard
testimony about traffic
equitable housing schools combined hoa
and more
but i’m not going to talk about any of
that instead i want to talk about my
experience
with green and blue enterprises and why
i think this
these should develop maple lawn west in
1999
i was going to buy a house in montgomery
county and ultimately i chose not to
i did what everyone does these days and
i fired up a web browser to search for
tnds
traditional neighborhood developments
nearby and came across a baltimore
scenario about maple law
i started to follow this development

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02:20:00.000 –> 02:22:00.000
from that moment
i attended multiple county council
hearings but stewart grinenbaum talked
about his vision for maple lawn at those
meetings and other meetings
i can assure you that the vision he
talked about when he laid out his plan
for maple lawn is what you see today 20
years later
if i may i’d like to share some examples
of the community focused decision that
michael greenenbaum and his team has
made when midtown
was the only district with residents we
did not have a paved path to walk to the
commercial district
the residence residents asked a green
bomb team member about it
at a at an hoa meeting and three weeks
later we saw
construction crew paving a temporary
sidewalk that was eventually
that would eventually be replaced when
the rest of the development was
completed
from installing a serendipity garden at
the local high school
paying for school signs donating those
sidewalk libraries
to adopting local families during the
holidays and more
the grain bomb team definitely gives
back to the local community
my last example tonight is a is on a
personal note
in 2014 i wanted to find a space to
coach robotics to the local students
green bomb enterprises donated about six
thousand square foot of space
to run our stem club that continues to
cater to students from howard county and
beyond
that’s the kind of community maple
learners because that’s the kind of
community stuart grinenbaum envisioned
and planned i support the maple on west
plan development because i know the
county needs to stay competitive
and attract new businesses and residents
to the county but also because there is
no other developer
that is as invested in our community as
michael greenbaum thank you so much
thank you next please
uh rudy magyar

72
02:22:00.000 –> 02:24:00.000
rudy can you hear me yes can you hear me
i can yes thank you
so thank you very much thank you for
giving me the opportunity to speak
and thank you chair first of all i’d
like to thank
all the residents of maple lawn and
their representatives for
presenting a very good case for why this
petition
should not be allowed to go forward and
i would like to
agree with that but i would also like to
bring up
five points that i think the committee
should consider
also in addition to
not taking to not allowing this petition
to go forward
so the first point was mentioned to
earlier when we talked about traffic
and there was a traffic study that was
presented that is replete with errors
and omissions in particular
the traffic study listed two egresses
from maple on west one of them was on
216 and another one
was on federal street federal street
would empty out
to the primary garden district in maple
lawn which also aunties out
onto jaeger this is very problematic for
several reasons that have already been
mentioned
including the fact that over the last
couple years there’s actually been
several car accidents
on jaeger because the volume of cars is
larger than the road was perhaps
designed for
it would be nice if the traffic
assessment would consider
the current burden on jaeger with
actual data and actually consider how
that will affect
the situation and whether the additional
egresses must be added to maple lawn
i think the plan should also include
information
about an alternate plan should that
federal
not be allowed to continue into the
garden district
the second point that i think needs to
be considered and this has not been
mentioned by anyone
is that the fulton post office is
essentially a rural post office
and it is already way overburdened it it

73
02:24:00.000 –> 02:26:00.000
basically i don’t i don’t know whether
you guys have been there or seen it but
there’s you often very long lines to
assess the one or two tellers that might
be there
now i know you guys are you’re not in
charge of building post offices or
whatnot but it is something that should
be
considered another point
that was mentioned and alluded to
is the apartment complex that
is located in the new proposed plan
this is something that could be slightly
problematic as it
proposed to be set up right next to the
middle school i don’t know if there are
density rules regarding the
proximity of apartment complexes to
schools but that is something that
should be addressed
a fourth point to consider is that this
is essentially a very large change to
the original plan
and considering the magnitude of this
change
this should also the the developer
should propose this also as
a new entirely new development
irregardless of maple on and see where
the percentages of land usage come out
for this as a completely independent
parcel that would at least take the mask
off this proposal and allow us to see
this proposal as it is
essentially a new development and that’s
important because it
also brings into focus the question of
the retail space
the retail space is what i come up to
next is my fifth
point and i make this very quick as it
seems like i’m out of time
but basically the retail for maple lawn
should also be considered in the plan
the parking
lot in the retail section is often very
overcrowded
and many of the retail stores are often
uh are often higher end stores and with
additional people there it would be nice
to have some stores that are maybe more
mixed use
and that’s something that wasn’t even
considered in the plan as well as
parking facilities for additional
residents so thank you for your time

74
02:26:00.000 –> 02:28:00.000
thank you next please
what give me one second ed
um okay next is shelly brown
good evening my name is shelly brown and
i reside at 7304 trap street bolton
maryland
i’ve lived in maple lawn for nine years
and very happy resident at this meeting
i would ask for you to
decline to recommend the proposed
modification
i understand that maple on west will be
developed i listened
closely to the presentation of the
developer the developers stated that
they did not know
what overcrowding actually meant at the
schools mr o
stated whether it was 105 or 115
he really didn’t understand what
overcrowding meant
clueless showing the developer is not
interested in the community at a whole
but is interested in obviously the money
that this
development would make the argument to
start smart development means
overcrowding our schools and causing
traffic uh
plainly doesn’t make any sense further
mr o stated that
part of the problem with the
overcrowding at fulton elementary school
was because of the pre-k program and
that program is part of the reason why
um fulton elementary is so diverse given
the opportunity for pre-k
for uh students that wouldn’t or
otherwise be able to afford
go into pre-k the traffic advisor that
they um presented
last week or two weeks ago stated that
the study
their study actually is not accurate
because it has not been
um tested in the last year and a half
because of the covert restrictions
um clearly there are statements that
three more cars every one minute
is clearly not accurate because it’s not

75
02:28:00.000 –> 02:30:00.000
based on any statistics that would be
um close in time to um
i guess the present day anyone driving
by fulton elementary school in the
morning or afternoon
during normal times knows better to say
that
we don’t have a traffic problem that
exists already for them
furthermore 10 portables tells us
otherwise that the school is clearly
very overcrowded the prior testimony
stated that the developer would adhere
to the ten percent
mihu uh mildly priced um
units but my reading of the rules of the
um
policy basically states that the um
housing could be either purchasing or
renting
i believe that shown by the market that
we have here in howard county now where
the homes across the street are
selling for one million dollars and the
developer cannot dictate
how much the houses can be sold those
units most likely will be in apartments
clustered in one unit not giving
opportunity as the program is set
um set up for do we really believe that
these homes will be
less expensive than the one million
across the street i i’d
say not they made the argument that
having only 32 homes would increase the
cost of the homes i believe that having
the increase in the number would not
necessarily lower the cost of the homes
um development can be viewed it cannot
be viewed in a vacuum we must
not put blinders on and consider how the
development affects the residents
schools and many other aspects of our
lives
when making this recommendation i asked
the committee to consider
how this will affect the community as a
whole not just think of the development
all development is good development
common sense development is good
development
they did also discuss throwing up
ancillary um
land further i’m sorry i have a final
thought please yes my final thought
um is right we’d ask you all to be
proactive not reactive

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02:30:00.000 –> 02:32:00.000
and have any development be intentional
not speculative and therefore not
recommend the proposed
uh modifications of the plan thank you
thank you uh next please
sunny shirazi yes can you hear me
great thanks a lot board members um
i’ve been my uh my name is sunny shirazi
i live
uh on 1125 chelsea way which is
like a minute away from maple lawn
i’ve been working at maple on for the
past six years
i love the community uh live very close
by as i mentioned my kids go to
fulton elementary and i’ve seen how
special the maple lawn community is
and we’ll like to see it grow and be
part of it in the future
i support maple lawn west
and would like to see more housing
options become available in maple on
west
so as my family grow i would like to buy
a house
and live in the new community uh in the
future and stay here in howard county
and make the lawn many of my co-workers
and friends are very excited about this
new community too
and all the benefits it would bring uh
to the to the maple on
right now including more affordable
housing diversity
and of course green space so i fully
support
uh the new maple on uh development
i just want to be uh short and quick
thank you
thank you next please
yes hi my name is stephanie mummert i
live at 9754
summer park court columbia maryland two
one zero four six
good evening planning board and other
guests let me start by saying i am not

77
02:32:00.000 –> 02:34:00.000
against development or progress
we live maybe ten minutes away from
maple lawn on the southern edge of
king’s contrivance
we have made friends with people who
live in maple lawn we have enjoyed the
businesses and restaurants
that have helped weave maple lawn into
our area i agree with those parts of the
presentation given at the prior meeting
the design of maple lawn is well well
conceived and the residents seem very
happy
the plans they present for the site that
is currently a turkey farm definitely
make efficient use of space
my problem with the requested amendment
surround the issues of infrastructure
specifically schools and roads
i know those factors are considered more
carefully at other planning phases
but i am asking you to consider them now
because they present significant
concerns
that should give you pause before
allowing the petitioner to amend their
zoning and land use
in a way that is not a matter of right
they are building at a high density at
least as compared to the prior plan for
32 homes that was allocated for the site
they are building 500 plus homes
directly adjacent to three schools that
are overcrowded
and those schools are surrounded by
other schools that are also overcrowded
tim rogers of the office of school
planning highlighted this capacity issue
in his letter to you
he specifically notes the schools
serving this development have capacity
concerns at all three levels
he gave you the numbers each number
above 100
means that each school is being asked to
educate more students
than the physical capacity of the
buildings mr o may see this as a
value-based judgment on what is
considered crowded
i see this as a practical measure of the
space in a building
and note that even that number can be
adjusted by including portables
fulton elementary school uses nine’s
portable classrooms
because they do not have sufficient
space within their school building for
the students that attend
i previously thought it was five
portables then found a report that shows
they actually use
nine i will also note that same report
states reservoir will
be adding three additional portables
this summer bringing them to a total of
eight portables
even with those additional classrooms
the 2021 utilization of reservoir is at
almost 110
if your petitioners find this acceptable
i invite them to relocate their offices

78
02:34:00.000 –> 02:36:00.000
to one of the portables for a day and
then report back
by approving this amendment you are
saying that portables are acceptable
as long as development continues again
redistricting won’t fix this
issue without building more schools
before registered in 2019
fulton had over a thousand students in a
space that had capacity for 826
which includes the nine portables during
redistricting students were moved from
fulton to hammond
now there is no room in the nearby
schools pointers run forming crossing
and hammond are all about capacity as
well
if this amendment is approved you will
be adding students to a region in the
county that already doesn’t have room
we don’t have funding for a new
elementary school until at least 2028
and that date is not set in stone since
it has already been
postponed multiple times i’ll finish up
quickly
i ask you to consider the request for mr
rogers in his letter
he made a request for consideration of
site layout options that include
sites for elementary school facilities i
interpret that to mean the need
to reserve space for a school not an
accessory building you can squeeze into
open space
currently occupied by a pond please
request clarification from the school
system on this issue before you approve
this amendment
thank you thank you next please
steve fishman yes
my name is steve fishman and i live at
7760 elmwood road
here in maple lawn i lived in maple lawn
for seven years and have been living in
howard county for over 30 years
i want to thank the board members of the
planning board for their time and thank
the previous
planning board who supported the vision
of maple lawn
which me and my family and over 1300
families in maple
lawn enjoy so much what attracted me to
maple lawn
was the walkability throughout the
entire community including
all the retail areas what also attracted
me was how well the tnd was planned and
executed
as it included a lot of wreck facilities

79
02:36:00.000 –> 02:38:00.000
pocket parks
open spaces and offered a high degree of
diversity in housing types and pricing
i’ve heard a lot of negative talk
tonight however the community is one of
the most sought after communities
not not any in the local area of howard
county but in the region
for all of these reasons nevertheless
i’m concerned that more needs to be done
as the retail and commercial areas are
lagging there’s a lot of vacant
pads that have not been developed yet um
the residential areas were completed a
few years ago
but these areas have a way to go why
retail businesses need a critical mass
of rooftops
and i would argue that the community
needs more rooftops to attract
businesses to want to be here
i feel like the community is doing well
but it’s not living out its view vision
more rooftops are what will help make it
thrive
and be a more vibrant tnd community
to follow along with adding more homes
is including housing diversity
this plan provides for a full housing
cycle from apartment to town homes to
small single family detached to larger
single family detached
includes many housing options and with
that will come many pricing options
to be inclusive many of my neighbors
have previously traded homes
up and down in size in the neighborhood
to meet their needs and affordability
it’s a highly sought after community
people don’t people come here they don’t
want to leave
there’s a reason for that it’s it’s a
special place
one last thing um to mention that’s
important to me
is that there are opportunities for my
kids to come back and live in the
surrounding area
right now the the opportunities and
availability
is just less and less with not a whole
lot coming
building another 32 and i heard the
number of 1 million dollar homes
if they’re if they’re 32 large acre lots
these homes in maple lawn will be over 2
million bucks
and that is absolutely not a step in
that direction

80
02:38:00.000 –> 02:40:00.000
i would like to see the community grow
with inclusivity
and not exclusivity housing growth is
important for the community to thrive
further
and i’m in support of this inclusive and
diverse plan with additional homes
there’s a national housing crisis
these issues need to get solved at the
local level no growth
or low growth policies will further
exacerbate the problem
many have said they support growth
tonight but
most comments that followed were
contrary to that point
there are solutions to the school
capacity issues through apfo
and over 10 million dollars in future
impact fees that will be paid with the
issuance of building permits
not growing is not the right answer
as a community member i ask that you
approve this application
thank you thank you next please
oh we are down to our alaskan uh
thomas brular yes
hi my name is tom royer i’m at 11660
federal street fulton
while the planning board may be able to
avoid fixing issues such as traffic in
schools
one issue you cannot avoid is your own
legal precedent surrounding land
located in environmentally sensitive
areas
right on the edge of the plant water and
sewer area line
what we have here is a piece of land in
a watershed
that is currently documented by the epa
is seriously impaired
and while this parcel is within the pca
boundaries the actual
physical location which is right on the
edge of the psa line
is what matters most because the psa is
a huge deal for this county
according to the exact words taken from
your own general plan
these properties because of their
location at the interface
of the royal residential zone in the psa
should be designed and zoned to
establish
a transition that is compatible with

81
02:40:00.000 –> 02:42:00.000
and enhances surrounding communities
that statement right there
is the primary reason 32 units is the
maximum density
ever allowed on this partial parcel it
wasn’t by some mistake it’s based off
major concerns
for properties located in
environmentally sensitive areas
and the county’s own zoning precedent
that they be compatible
in transition with the surrounding rural
lands
also it’s not just this property if you
were to literally follow the psa line up
to the top of the county line
it is clear that the county has made it
a point to never allow
high-density development to parcels
directly adjacent
to rural zoning land just look at maple
on south right across the street
as a perfect recent precedent of a
similar size parcel
in a watershed area located on the very
edge of that psa line
where that developer a few years ago was
asking for 1500 units
and guess what was approved 176 units
because to allow anything more than that
would totally contradict your own
general plan
it would tell everyone that howard
county really doesn’t care
about compatibility and transition or
more importantly howard county could
care less about the environment
so what has changed so drastically that
we’re here to discuss anything other
than 32 units
if there were major concerns about this
parcel when maplon was first approved 20
years ago
and when the developers tried to
increase density over the years
but failed then there should be even
greater efforts
to limit density today considering the
fact that the rural land directly to the
west still exists
the hammond branch waterway is still
impaired the underlying
zoning of the maple lawn district is
still rr zoning
and the county still to this day has
only allowed low density development on
land
on that psa line time has shown that the
original maple on planning board over 20
years ago
actually had it totally right and the
planning board today will do the right
thing as
as well because you only have one shot

82
02:42:00.000 –> 02:44:00.000
at this make a decision
that follows years of precedent and
protect the environment
thanks for your time thank you
was that it lisa
uh lisa my name’s mike book i didn’t get
to uh talk testify
oh i’m sorry mr bull yeah you’re correct
actually i was going to come back up the
list to you and one other person
okay i’ll be real quick i’m going to
throw my script out since it’s getting
late i just uh
shout out to kacha who’s an appleton
graduate as as to my 1989
i’ve had the privilege of living in
howard county for the past 50 years
my parents met my grandparents met at
the savage mill
and my father’s parents worked at apl so
i’ve seen a lot of change in the county
throughout my lifetime for full
disclosure our family owns divine
apartments which is adjacent to maple
lawn uh
we have firsthand at least seen the the
the need for
uh affordable housing and also uh you
know i guess you call it market rate
housing
there’s a huge demand our building is
currently 100 percent leased
and i think the community needs
additional
diverse housing i have no economic
benefit
in the proposed development i’m speaking
here tonight
simply as a resident of this community
let me back up i’m sorry just
my address is 3200 hunters worth away
glenwood maryland 21738
i’ve listened to the comments to lesson
density and uh and understand
many of the petitioners concerns but i
want to pick up on something that was
said
as i have four young children who are
finding their way in this world i want
to make sure they have the same
opportunities
that all of us have enjoying enjoy
living in this county i want them to
have the ability to live in the county
if they choose
we have many employees that would love
to live in our county especially
in maple lawn for all that it offers uh

83
02:44:00.000 –> 02:46:00.000
our company book construction
uh we’re one of the top 400 contractors
in the u.s we employ over 190 folks
and i’m happy to say that in 2022 we’ll
be building one of those
uh building pads that maple lawn and uh
and bringing a lot of employees uh to
the local communities and businesses
it is no secret that the largest
employer in the county is located a mile
away from the proposed development
creating quality housing in the county
is a need it is a priority
and i don’t think it’s responsible view
for current residents
and former politicians to say they
already have theirs too bad for everyone
else
if that was our viewpoint if that was
the county’s viewpoint for the past 50
years
essentially none of us would be living
in the county today
i think we’re fortunate that the
developer is the same firm that designed
and built maple lawn
not maple on south or is it is it is a
difference
uh the grenade quality built a quality
runamount company built a quality
development and to this day maintains
the development in first-class manner
i have no doubt that the next phase will
be built in the same standards as the
original neighborhood
also i strongly suggest that we follow
the policy of our county which is to
make
sure that we ensure the vibrancy of
quality developments like maple lawn
bottom line is i hope we don’t waste an
opportunity to provide
quality smart growth neighborhood and
you allow maple lawn to realize its full
potential
so it can continue to provide
opportunities for not only my family
but others as well thank you all for
your time
thank you next please uh yeah i need to
see if mr kosai is still there
neil hi good evening this is erica i’m
here with my husband neelam
okay um so we live at
8221 gunner drive fulton maryland 20759
we are opposed to the prepared
the the proposed plan for adjusting the

84
02:46:00.000 –> 02:48:00.000
plan in the development in maple lawn
west
many people have already said everything
that there has to be said i just want to
add one last closing comment
i have listened to everyone give their
both um encouragement of and rejection
of the plan
i think the take-home messages
really are no one is saying that growth
shouldn’t be
um pursued what we’re saying is that
growth should be pursued
intelligently in a way that is
sustainable
and will not detract from the beautiful
place
that is howard county if we are not
intelligent about the growth
we will result in a decline in the
ability of schools to provide quality
care
which will result in a decline
in the status of howard county as
a desirable location to be so if
they would like to increase the number
of homes
which i think is completely reasonable
they also need to simultaneously
propose a way to address the
already large deficit
in availability for quality schooling
in the neighborhood our schools are
already above capacity
and are more overloaded
today than in some of your inner city
schools and so
i cannot in good conscience be in
agreement with a plan that proposes to
increase the number
of lots to 500 plus
not including the fact that usually
there are more than one child
or more than one person moving into each
lot without an
simultaneous plan to improve the number
and quality of educational opportunities

85
02:48:00.000 –> 02:50:00.000
for the residents who are here and who
plan to move here
thank you
that is it
okay um thank you everybody um
certainly a lot to think about um
so we’re coming up on 10 o’clock um
is is august 4th still open
it is there you have nothing else
scheduled for august 4th
so i wondered how you guys would feel
about if we continue the work session or
we we conclude testimony now
and then we continue the rest of the
proceedings on um
august 4th i am in agreement
thank you kevin
i am in agreement work is august 4th is
a wednesday
oh august 5th is thursday
but i’m in agreement august 5th is fine
for me
august 5th is fine for me thank you
erica
yes august 5th is fine for me as well
okay and then um we’ll reach out to phil
um who wasn’t able to attend tonight he
can review
tonight’s proceedings and then
participate on the fifth
if if he’s available then i will send a
link to him
okay thank you does anybody help
no further testimony i’m sorry on the
fifth correct
no further testimony but we’ve taken

86
02:50:00.000 –> 02:52:00.000
everybody right
we have yep so so no additional
testimony
um did anybody have any closing comments
or would somebody like to make a motion
i move we close this session
okay thank you
thank you okay all in favor of in
journey
okay see you all on the fifth take care
thank you
good night everyone thank you everyone
for your testimony